Community Band dues?

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:14 am

I believe you are likely to get a wide range of opinions on this one. Mine would be that you should have a clear idea of how you will handle non-payment before you institute the fee. One possible approach would be to simply begin to announce the names of those who don't pay, say at the conclusion of rehearsals. Perhaps this will embarass the person who is not paying.

As to not allowing a person to perform with the group, do you have a plan that covers that for other reasons. As an example, if I come to play in your band, bring an oboe, and sit down to play, what would you do? You couldn't let me do that. I would destroy your band. Since problems of this sort are pretty rare, most bands don't have a plan. In my opinion, they need a plan. Otherwise they are helpless to deal with the situation when it happens.

In your case, you anticipate the problem. You are doing the right thing to consider possible actions before they are necessary. Exactly what you do will probably depend somewhat on the personality of the group. Another factor might be how important the revenue is. Another would be who would know who has not paid.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:26 am

Often bands will allow exceptions to paying member dues. A (poor) member goes up to the treasurer (or whomever is in charge of collecting) and explains their situation. Sometimes, that individual will be asked to do a little extra work to avoid paying dues (such as concert set-up/take-down, help distribute concert posters, etc).

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Fri May 18, 2007 7:01 pm

Actually, we don't enforce collection. We tell folks that we have these needs financially, and we keep them informed of our financial position in detail. We practice open books in our group, which is unusual. I think the reason it is unusual is because most groups keep such sloppy books that they have nothing to share with their members.

We present dues not as a mandatory requirement, but as an opportunity for those members of the group who do not contribute financially in other ways to contribute. This tells the members that paying dues is not an obgligation with negative consequences for not doing so, but a positive contribution with positive consequences for doing so. If someone gets upset about it, they brought that with them. We've had people who were in financial trouble, and we forgave the dues for them. We've had other people who just didn't pay, and we didn't kick them out. We've had some pay months after the call, so it obviously eats on them.

I'm sure there are some who will abuse the system. But eventually, they'll either feel guilty and pay, or feel paranoid and leave.

The first year we collected dues (after years of not doing so), we had two who protested. The first because he already contributed through United Way, and we told him that the dues were an opportunity for those who didn't give otherwise, not for guys like him, and that overcame his initial resentment at being asked. The second had been a regularly negative personality in the band, and that person left soon after. I learned from the first person how to better present it to the band, and the second person was not missed.

Most folks want to serve the groups they derive satisfaction from. Few around here have time to put into the group other than playing their instrument, so they are glad of the opportunity not to feel guilty about letting others do the work. As the band president, I never, ever present the officers as the leaders of the group; always as the servants. We just won't go where everyone isn't ready to go. With that attitude, dues are easy.

I suspect we get about 80-90% participation in the dues program. That's fine; I'd rather have the musical colleages than the money.

Rick "still in the midst of the dues experiment" Denney

davet · Post by **davet** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:09 pm

I just remembered- before we had the Notre Dame concession booth we did a raffle with each member "expected" to sell a certain number of tickets and no consequences for nonparticipation. I forgot about it because I didn't sell any tickets- just asked how many each member was expected to sell and gave the treasury that amount of cash.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:01 pm

The community band I founded seven years ago is thriving and doing quite well. I think one of the biggest reasons why we are doing so well is that we really have no expectations of our membership other than to just come and have fun. That being said, there are as many different 'flavors' of community bands as there are flavors of ice cream.... ranging from true community bands like ours that basically accept anyone who wants to come play a brasswind, woodwind, or percussion instrument... with no real definition of the word 'play', to those community groups that are highly structured and mandate tryouts. There is also a range from 'no one gets paid' (such as ours) to 'everyone gets paid'.

I mentioned once before that there is an excellent community music forum that is monitored by hundreds of community groups across the nation. You'll get PLENTY of opinions there. It's here:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/c-m/

Dan Schultz, president
The Old Dam Community Band
Newburgh, Indiana
http://www.olddamband.com

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Sat May 19, 2007 3:30 am

I feel strongly against dues.
I contribute a musical and social effort to help the band prosper. If there are fundraisers (public concerts, concession stands on other occasions...) IÂ´ll contribute time and talent (as much or little as there may be). I contribute my own gear toimprove my playing.

But money ?

The band and its chairpersons have established contacts to the community that ensures public support that will make ends meet. If this public support ceases to exist, weÂ´ll have to abandon our (not too well paid, anyways) conductor and cut down on our musical projects. Over the years, band will simply starve to death if that happens. So we better keep our social position in the community alive and healthy.
On the other hand: if thereÂ´s no support from the public, thereÂ´ll be no music for processions, festivities and other public occasions.
This is what I (having been raised in a city of 650.000) found out about life in a village. Traditional ways of dealing with each other make sense, when you look at them.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat May 19, 2007 3:59 am

Many high school bands in Southern California charge fees for the students to participate in marching activities. These fees may run anywhere from $50 to $500 and up. For those students whose parents cannot afford this, they must commit themselves to fundraising for the band. Now going through the motions here won't cut it... They must raise at least $450 over the year (if the fee is $500) or else they owe whatever they didn't pay for incidental fees at the end of the year. And there is a contract which makes this legally binding.

Most parents actually prefer the fees over fundraising because it means more time with their child.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:39 pm

tubeast wrote:I feel strongly against dues.
I contribute a musical and social effort to help the band prosper.

...

On the other hand: if thereÂ´s no support from the public, thereÂ´ll be no music for processions, festivities and other public occasions.

Hans, your perspective is different from mine, probably because of where we live and our different cultures.

I do not play music as a contribution to anyone else's happiness. That would be grossly presumptuous of me. And I'm assuming that if they wanted that happiness, they would pay for my contribution just as they do with professional groups.

I play music to contribute to my own happiness. In that effort, I do not think it is society's responsibility to fund my happiness, especially if I'm not willing to fund my own at any level.

Our band accompanies festivities from time to time, and we receive a contribution for doing so. But if the local parades want a band for marching, we aren't it. The reason is simple: We don't want to march. And every high school has a marching band that can be tapped. Local taxpayers really are paying for those groups.

An adult community band is not a professional group, and professional groups, in my opinion, fall outside the description of community band. Community bands are organizations that exist so that musical people in the community have a means of expressing their music. Thus, the service of a community band is primarily directed at its members, and the members are the primary beneficiaries of that service.

If the Loudoun Symphonic Winds vanished tomorrow, few would even notice let alone mourn its departure, except for the members. That's the reality we have to live with, and believing otherwise is unrealistic. In that context, it's a club, and I've never belonged to a club yet that didn't charge dues.

For example, my local amateur radio club provides significant services to the community during emergency preparedness drills (and, presumably, during an actual emergency), and in support of a range of community activities. They are never paid; it is expected that they will do this as a service. Dues for the club are also expected. Nobody in that group operates under the illusion that society should pay them to enjoy their hobby.

The problem is with musicians (unlike myself) who trained to be professionals, and ended up paying the bills with some other line of work. There is a residual disappointment on the part of many of those musicians in their outcome, and paying dues to play in an amateur group just reminds them of it. And some professional musicians participate in amateur groups for the fun of it, and feel as though they are providing a service. They are. But it's not a financial service.

Another example: Members of service clubs such as Rotary or Kiwanis pay often large amounts as dues. For them, paying dues is part of the service, and they see their financial contribution as an opportunity to enhance their service.

Rick "thinking 'amateur' and 'mercenary' are usually mutually exclusive" Denney