Best BBb "Price no issue" tuba

[Lew]

I own a King 2341 and have tried all of the horns mentioned here at one time. The Rudolph Meinl 6/4 BBb is a great horn, but huge and although surprisingly nimble to play I don't think I would want it as my only horn. If I were to buy a BBb today and money were no object I would get a 5 valve Miraphone 1291. I have yet to find a BBb tuba that plays as easily as and has the sound of the samples of this horn that I have played. The only reason I still have the King and not the Miraphone is because I really like the way the King plays and already owned it so didn't think the difference was worth the several thousand dollars more that it would cost to trade up.

Of course that's me. Part of the reason that you have received so many answers is because the answer is different for everybody. He really needs to go somewhere to try out as many as possible. Since money isn't a problem it is worth taking a road trip to one (or more) of the few stores that have a bunch of tubas in stock and/or going to a conference where he could try a bunch of horns. He should listen to other people's opinions then try the top choices for himself and make up his own mind.

[Tortuba]

Well, folks, thanks for all the input.

I'll pass on the link to this thread and let the shopper decide.

BTW, any info on which European manufactuers have plant tours and test horns?

Actually, I'm looking forward his final decision. Maybe he'll let me play it sometime. But, I may get tuba envy and have to buy a new one myself.

[r smith]

One question that has not been discused is how old is your friend. If he is middle age or older he may not want to lug around some of the larger Tuba's talked about in previous posts.

When he goes to Europe he may want to visit the Lidl factory. http://www.lidlmusic.cz/josef/

I purchased a Lidl BBb Tuba last year and am very happy with the size, weight (15 lbs.) & most important Sound & Intonation.

I am 69 years old & the Lidl suits my needs for Concert Band.

The Lidl Tuba has a bore size of .721 which is not bad for 3/4 size Instrument.

It is very hard in Canada to be able to play test new Instrument as not many Dealers have the inventory.
Hope this will help your friend.

[pwhitaker]

.... If I were to buy a BBb today and money were no object I would get a 5 valve Miraphone 1291. I have yet to find a BBb tuba that plays as easily as and has the sound of the samples of this horn that I have played. ....

I did just that this fall. The 1291 5V BBb is an amazing horn.
I could rhapsodize for a paragraph or two but I'll be succinct and say that after 55+ years of tuba-playing I have never been this much in love with a tuba - and I have loved a lot of tubas over the decades.

[Rick Denney]

He may just want to spring for a top-end Eb and keep on doing what he's doing.

Maybe. But we were told very little about his musical objectives, except for one thing: He wanted to explore BBb with a high-quality instrument.

I'm assuming he already has a good Eb tuba.

That's also why I'm drawn to the 5/4 portion of the crystal ball we are gazing into. A 6/4 is somewhat specialized, given the majority of 6/4 tubas one might find. But a true Bb Yorkophone (which, with the exception of the Rudy Meinl, defines the 6/4 class) is difficult to buy at any price, and none are made new. The most available American-style BAT in Bb is an old Conn 2xJ, but those don't usually appear on anyone's "best-of" list. They are fun for what they are, but they are not always easy to make work.

But the larger 5/4 instruments, such as the Fafner and Rudy 5/4 would complement a good Eb pretty well.

I'll let the guy doing the buying decide whether he has the air to fill it up. Of course, the good large tubas really don't need much more air than the good small tubas; it's resonance that fills the instrument, not air. Hence Jacobs's description of his York as "an old man's tuba". I do not by any means supply more than average air power, but I still get plenty of benefit in the quality of sound from the Holton, even if I have to breathe twice as often as the next guy.

Schlepping a big tuba is another consideration best left to the guy with the checkbook. I've developed some painful arthritis in my right elbow, no doubt exacerbated by years of schlepping tubas and luggage. That's the one thing that bothers me about the Holton (and the York Master, too). A Fafner isn't as heavy as either of those, but it's heavier than most 4/4 tubas. Despite the pain, though, I still bring the Holton, because the musical result is worth a little suffering.

Rick "not trying to second-guess the OP's friend's motives" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

Maybe. But we were told very little about his musical objectives, except for one thing: He wanted to explore BBb with a high-quality instrument.

See, that's what has me bedaferated.

"Exploring" a BBb shouldn't mean going to drop a bundle on a new instrument. A used Miraphone 186 should be fine for "exploring"--heaven knows, it's got more even intonation than many of the high-priced "bunker busters". As regards playability, it's about as "high quality" as you can get.

It could be that he may not like the experience. Given the choice between Eb and Bb bass parts in brass band, I'll take Eb any day.

[Rick Denney]

"Exploring" a BBb shouldn't mean going to drop a bundle on a new instrument.

It's not for me to decide how the fellow spends his money. If he buys it, and doesn't like what he finds, he'll sell it, I suppose. It's his money. But he asked for the best high-end Bb tuba available, and I figured that he had money sufficient to the risk.

Rick "whose dic isn't big enough to include 'bedaferated'" Denney

[Leland]

Just because I haven't seen it mentioned yet --

VMI 3301/3302 / Schmidt 3301 / B&S PT-2 piston

Same horn, many names, in either 4p or 4p-1r configurations. I've had a 3302 for eight years and have thoroughly enjoyed playing it. I let a friend borrow it for a few church performances, and he's bought a 3301 of his own that he absolutely digs.

Nice 4/4+ horn with what I'd call good physical feedback.

[TubaRay]

**** just tell your friend to get a Miraphone 186 from Steve Ferguson and forget all this chatter. Forget all this "money is no object" claptrap.
The 186 is the kind of horn that 95% of the people who post here honestly will never outgrow.

Now there you go again, Dale...bursting people's bubbles...

OK. Now it's not bubbles that are bursting, here.

[Rick Denney]

...with those hands and feet about which you regularly brag...

Well, my hands are big enough to...

No, I shouldn't say that.

I do have a big di....

No, that will be misunderstood, too.

Let's just say that I have large hands, large feet, and the unabridged Oxford Dictionary of the English Language.

Rick "not claiming any correlation" Denney

[WakinAZ]

The 186 is the kind of horn that 95% of the people who post here honestly will never outgrow.

Very insightful and well put.

Eric "part of the 95%" L.

[Tortuba]

Just to close the loop on this thread...

Thanks for all the replies. I directed the "shopper" to this board and he was appreciative of all the feedback, and was very amused by the some of the comments.

He is off to Europe shortly and has arranged to visit the Rudy plant. He would like to visit other plants but doesn't have the time.

He will be joining TubeNet as soon as he can figure out the sign-up protocol and I'm sure he will give us updates of his adventures.

[Geotuba]

Hi there

Thanks to Tortuba for kicking off this thread to help me in my research. It took a while before my login to this board worked but, as Tortuba said, I have appreciated the comments while being unable to inject additional information into the dialogue.

So - here's some background.

I am in my early 50s - played Tuba since I was in High School in England but, with the exception of my first 2 years using the school's ancient Hawkes BBb (so I am familiar, if a bit rusty, with the BBb fingering) I have always played the B&H EEb that was all I could afford when I was a student. Although I played in all kinds of ensembles in my youth (orchestra, concert band, jazz band, brass band, quintet), more recently I have mostly been playing in Concert Bands here in the Toronto area for the last 15 years.

However, I am getting tired of the constant struggles with my trusty old EEb (about 20 years older than me), especially fighting sticky valves and dealing with the need to work really really hard to get enough volume out of the lower registers, that I have started looking at going back to a BBb. While money is not entirely "no object", I am fortunate in that I can spend a good chunk on something that will not only provide me no excuses for poor playing but will also, hopefully, either be an investment or at least not lose too much of its value. I know I could get a pretty good instrument for a pretty decent price and, quite frankly, I am probably not competent enough to get anywhere near the full benefit out of a top flight instrument. But heck, it's nice to have nice stuff and this is a unique opportunity for me so why not grab it

I have been borrowing an Alexander BBb for the last couple of weeks and am finding it so much more responsive (hard to play quietly!!) and no problem for me to fill with air. I had to work so hard to get a decent volume out of my EEb that I am now having to work hard to play the Alex softly!!

I will report back on my visit to the Rudolf Meinl factory in a couple of weeks and see whether I have taken the plunge or whether I'll test out some others before doing so.

[Geotuba]

There are some GREAT Eb's out there. This also might be a better choice ergonomically for an older gentleman.

I appreciate the concern but I'm not in my wheelchair yet

I am really enjoying the rotary valves on the Alex - much more agile than the pistons - although using the little finger for the 4th valve rather than the other hand is getting a bit tiring. On that topic there was another thread here about some conversions that seemed interesting.

I would certainly be interested in trying some really great Eb's before deciding (BTW Tortuba seemed to think this would be my "last purchase" - no idea where he got that idea from - sounds like a strange notion to me ) That's a matter of getting one's hands on one - not too many places in the Toronto area with any kind of stock so have to take opportunities when I get to travel somewhere

[tofu]

-

[Rick Denney]

There are some GREAT Eb's out there. This also might be a better choice ergonomically for an older gentleman.

Early 50's is "older"?

Sheesh.

Rick "who ignores the arthritis to play a 28-pound 6/4 Holton" Denney

[Wyvern]

I am really enjoying the rotary valves on the Alex - much more agile than the pistons - although using the little finger for the 4th valve rather than the other hand is getting a bit tiring.

I played Besson tubas with left hand operated 4th valve for over 20 years, before I moved over to rotary valve tubas. My experience is that your little finger will soon strengthen and get used to operating the 4th valve. After two years I much prefer the front valve layout.

[iiipopes]

And as I have found out on my Miraphone, you can have the paddles unsoldered and resoldered to the length and width or spread to fit your hand better, and then height adjust the tangs if necessary, along with the thumb ring, leadpipe and receiver, to have a truly tailored custom fit. That's the only way I was able to play a 4-valve tuba.

[Billy M.]

I'm going to have to say that if you go piston, the Miraphone 1291 BBb is probably the best horn on the market.

As for rotor, it's a tough call. The Miraphone 191 is a great 4/4+ to 5/4 size horn or there is the Meinl-Weston Fafner. It depends on what type of vocation it'll be used for.

Large ensemble? Solos? Quintet? etc. et al.

[Geotuba]

Well, after a visit to the Rudy factory in Diespeck (where I got to play the 4/4, the regular 5/4 and the Bayreuth 5/4 - kind of intimidating with Rudolf himself standing over me the whole time - didn't bother trying the 6/4 as it makes no sense to be getting anything that big), and to Dillon's Music in New Jersey the die is cast. German - yes definitely - I just can't get to like the more brassy American sound so unless I get another horn one day for the kind of music that asks for that sound, I should go with the sound I like!

At Dillon's the only horn they had in stock that I would have considered buying was the Miraphone 191 (there was only a 4V in BBb although he had a 5V instrument in CC - actually I think this might have been a 186 or 188 - not sure) and I really wish I could have switched back and forth with the Rudy rather than relying on memory. It was suggested that the BB289 would be a suitable instrument for me (being 193cm tall - that's 6'4" for the metrically challenged) but there was not one in stock so no chance to try it. Rotary has also definitely won out over pistons for me so that decision is also made

So - the Rudy Bayreuth 5/4 it is. The one I tried in Germany was definitely the most in tune of all the instruments I have tried in this hunt, plus its responsiveness at all dynamics and in all ranges was also much superior to anything else. Worth twice the price? Probably not in some way but I have learned in life that any time I have decided to go for less than the very best simply as a cost decision (when I could actually have afforded the best that is) I end up regretting it time and time again. Doubtless overkill for my talents but at least I will have no excuse for crappy playing any more. Now to wait for a bunch of weeks while the thing gets built!!

Thanks for everyone's input