Valve Oil question

Pure Sound · Post by **Pure Sound** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:24 pm

I get up and Oil my horn(MP1291) at 6:00AM every day and practice for a few hours, But later on in the day several hours later. I come back for another practice session and find that my valves are much more sluggish than they were that morning. I keep the horn in a room at about 75 degrees so I'm thinking the valve oil might be a tad thin. I'm currently useing Roche Thomas. so I was wondering if anybody could suggest a moderately priced valve oil that would last all day and not leave me broke for oiling the horn every day.

Thanks,Puresound

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:38 pm

Could be a couple of things:

1) The solvents may be drying out of the oil you are using.
2) The oil may be cooler later in the day (where are you keeping the oil?)
3) Are you leaving the horn sitting beside an air-conditioning outlet?
4) Some oils tend to thicken when moisture (your breath) is introduced into them.
5) The tolerances in your valves changes when the horn warms up. Is your horn new? Quite often, a little wear does wonders for new pistons. You might need to drop by your friendly neighborhood repairman for a little lapping.

The solution might be to simply oil the horn EACH TIME you begin to play. I'm an advocate of 'NOT skimping on the oil'. That oil serves two purposes... 1) lubrication... & 2) washing the junk off the pistons. I use ultra-pure lamp oil with a dab of motor oil in it. Less that $1 a quart.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:05 pm

I've used Roche-Thomas for (mumble) years, well, decades. I purchase the large bottle, then dispense it into a smaller 1 or 2 ounce bottle to keep in the case of each of my instruments. For my tubas, I thicken it up in a similar manner as to what Tubatinker does with his UltraPure, but with a couple of drops of pure pharmaceutical grade mineral oil.

Brassworks 4 · Post by **Brassworks 4** » Mon May 28, 2007 1:04 am

Ever try Binak Pro? Not sure how it works on tubas, but it is FANTASTIC on my euph. I can go literally weeks without having to oil. Sometimes as much as 5 or 6 weeks. As long as it is applied as instructed - you can't apply on top of any other oils and you really do need to wipe off the valve before you reapply. And it takes very little. One bottle should pretty much last you a life time. I used to be a Roche Thomas user... until Binak.

Just my two cents worth.

smurphius · Post by **smurphius** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:56 pm

Synthetic presents different tendancies than regular valve oil. From experience, synthetic has been the better choice for me, as it doesn't react to temperature/humidity changes, or at least not by much.

Pure Sound · Post by **Pure Sound** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:27 pm

Well i cleaned out my horn put new slide grease (schilke lanolin) and switched to blue juice and the prob has stopped thank's so much for everyones input

Pure Sound · Post by **Pure Sound** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:33 pm

Well i cleaned out my horn put new slide grease (schilke lanolin) and switched to blue juice and the prob has stopped thank's so much for everyones input

Ferguson · Post by **Ferguson** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:41 pm

My take is that the Roche-Thomas oil is crappy. You shouldn't have to oil that much IMHO. I've used that R-T oil on trumpets at trade shows and it just doesn't last. Anything else I've used is better. I'd pass on the Al Cass too - doesn't last long for me and can get gummy on some horns with tight valves. Try anything else: Zaja, Blue Juice, Clark's Viper Oil, Pro Oil (Hybrid), Hetman, you name it. Spend $20 and buy a few bottles of different lubes. You might be very surprised.

SF

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:45 pm

Another cause for sticky valves -- less likely but frustrating:

Had an annoying problem where my Eb tuba would work fine for about an hour after oiling, then one or two of the valves would start to hang up noticeably.

The experienced repair tech in the next town suggested that if the valve slide(s) had gotten nudged a bit, this could exert some torque on the valve casing(s). After de-soldering and re-soldering a brace or two, everything is working very well. Before he embarked on this mission, we took the tuba when the sticky behavior was present, and applied some gentle force "here and there" on a few slides, demonstrating that this would immediately cure the problem.

FYI,

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:13 pm

Based on my experiences, sticky valves are almost always a sign of a dirty instrument. Clean it, thoroughly, at least once or twice a year, or you're asking for trouble. There are occasionally other issues, and your repair technician can advise you.

If you clean it and the problem remains, then it probably has lime/scale buildup, and needs a thorough chemical-cleaning. With the valves/slide out, let the instrument dry out. If there is a whitish haze inside/on the valves, then it needs a chem-clean before your valve action will be restored.

When an instrument is really clean, any number of lubricants will work. Hydrocarbon lubricants have been around for a long time, from valve oil(denatured kerosene) to lamp oil and Marvel Mystery Oil, but these are all to some extent acidic and will help the metal corrode. That is not a big factor if you religiously clean your instrument every week. Synthetic lubricants are non-acidic and cut the wear factor, but most of them contain silicones, will eventually gum up the mechanisms, and are very hard to clean out of the instrument. That is why I advocate the use of Hetman lubricants, which have no silicones. Developed by a mechanical engineer who is also a gigging musician, Joe Hetman's lubricants come in a variety of viscosities specifically engineered to get the most performance out of your instrument. By the way, I am in no way compensated by Hetman for my use of his products - I purchase them the same as anyone else. I will also mention that my favorite trombone slide lubricant is Conn-Selmer's Slide-O-Mix. My approach is very pragmatic - go with what works best, and lasts the longest.