Watching a band get worse...

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:03 pm

So, what do you do as a section leader in a school band, and you watch a band go completely downhill? What has happened, is that the band director that we used to have resigned due to the fact that the administrators made a bunch of cuts in what we can do (PM me if you want to hear those details). Then, they hired a kid that only knows drums fresh-out-of-college with a Masters. With that, they pulled this limits, and now the current director is hiring a bunch of buddies to do the guard and drumline help. The drumline guy is useless, and the complete drumline knows it. The first year he was there, he had a person from the year we were good, and then just switched it to his fiance.

One problem with him, is that it seems like he does nothing about the band going downhill. At our rehearsal today, the flags weren't together, and the mellophones were not even at parallel. Under the director before him, it would have been unacceptable.

I want to get him to push us more, so that we can at least be as good, if not better than we were...

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:18 pm

"In the face of adversity and personal pain, we continue to strive to achieve our ideals... to provide comfort and hope to those we care about... by converting our collective hopes, dreams and aspirations into reality. The dreams happen, because others can not ignore your passion and will follow" ~ Boris M Struk

The band director is out of your hands. Control what is in your hands, and bind together with others looking for excellence in the program.

It is usually pretty hard to sleep thru college and get your masters. There, very possibly, is more knowledge in him than you expect. Irregardless, he is who you have, and you need to be the best you can be and INFLUENCE (not tell) others to be as good as you want the program to be.

"The idiots with the sticks" Some of them are idiots, and sometimes we assume they are. The new band director may have walked into a whole bunch of situations you aren't aware of--- PLUS, he's having to live up to what you thought of as "a good band director". He has a hard gig to follow, not because your school was that good--- but because most "band geeks" have an adoration for their high school band directors. Seeing him go may have a lot more influence on your impression of the new one than really his job performance. He may be a horrible band director, or a great one just starting out. One thing I do know, don't bury him just yet.

Remember this time last year. How good was the band? There is a long time between now and MB.

Dean E · Post by **Dean E** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:47 pm

Sounds like the "storm" phase of teambuilding. Hang in there and do your very best to make things work. The lessons learned will pay off whereever life leads you.

Dean E

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:00 pm

I'm gonna have to agree with Wes on this. If he's got a masters degree he must know a little. I can only speak for my school but I know in order to get your bachelors degree you have to teach in a grade school music program for a few weeks then you get graded on your performance...next you go to a high school (the order can be switched between grade school/high school) to teach the music theory class (if there is one), jazz band (if there is one) and the band (marching band if it's during football season as well as the symphonic band). So I'm sure this person had to go through a similar program during either his under grad or grad program.

I know how you feel b/c when I was a kid in high school I kept wondering how our music program was so bad and how the director didn't do much in the way or "fixing" the problems. I came to realize that he knew what he was doing and he did a decent job with what little budget he had. I remember we had to raise money to buy 7 new concert tubas b/c our budget for the music department was around $7,000 and the tubas were about $28,000.

Just give this guy a chance. I'm sure he'll get better. Being a band director isn't easy. I've done a little (not much, mainly just in my conducting class) and I'm thinking of switching my degree for grad school to conducting. I'm really thinking of following my dream of being an orchestra director...I just can't get enough of it (and I'm not sure I could deal with kids all day, even if they were mature).

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:20 pm

wchoc86 wrote: Yo, Wes, you marched Phantom is 05? Sweet, Sickest tuba section in DCI history man. I'm gonna try out for that next year.

Yep, that was my age out year.

Personally, I was a bigger fan of the 02 line. I had a torn anterior tibialis in 05, which I'm sure didn't help my attitude towards the whole season. It was a really stressful summer, knowing that you could let a lot of people down, and feeling like if you hurt yourself worse or have to sit more--- you are hurting them even more.

Either way, thanks for the compliment. I took a lot of things from my time there, and a work ethic on my instrument is one of them.

Regardless of where you end up marching, do it. You may not like the experience marching, but you will appreciate it afterwards.

I promote drum corps, all drum corps, I really think they are a good thing for my generation of guys that have had everything handed to them and self gratification. Sleeping on a floor, practicing all day in the heat and sun. It is something that most never experience. Hard work truly is harder to find these days.

Now if I could just apply myself to this work ethic academically, as well as on my horn.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:23 pm

tubashaman wrote:happened with my band after my freshman year

2 Options

Option 1, if yall score extremely low at contests not on purpose, the director will probably be let go, or get a group of leaders to go infront of the school board

Option 2, get the band together and basically lead they band without a director, whats bad about this is that the director would still get the credit for the band and stay for a year

Good God, man... Get over yourself.

What makes *you* think you know more than the band director???

How about *getting behind* the band director and try to make it work?

Believe me, there is much more to music than 'scores in the contests'. Try looking for it, 'K?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:28 pm

I would grin and bear it. Knowing this is the band director's first year, he has enough problems. I have been in both places--both as a member of a group with an inexperienced leader (with the responsibility of section leader) and as a first year band director.

My new job as resource teacher for an English speaking school in Vietnam is helping to remind me of what it was like to be a first year teacher again because I am doing things that I have never done before. I have to be responsible to the students, their parents, and the school administrators. For your band director it goes even deeper than that. Not everyone gets to play with a prize winning band. Life isn't always fair.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:55 pm

djwesp wrote: The band director is out of your hands. Control what is in your hands, and bind together with others looking for excellence in the program.

It is usually pretty hard to sleep thru college and get your masters. There, very possibly, is more knowledge in him than you expect. Irregardless, he is who you have, and you need to be the best you can be and INFLUENCE (not tell) others to be as good as you want the program to be.

"The idiots with the sticks" Some of them are idiots, and sometimes we assume they are. The new band director may have walked into a whole bunch of situations you aren't aware of--- PLUS, he's having to live up to what you thought of as "a good band director". He has a hard gig to follow, not because your school was that good--- but because most "band geeks" have an adoration for their high school band directors. Seeing him go may have a lot more influence on your impression of the new one than really his job performance. He may be a horrible band director, or a great one just starting out. One thing I do know, don't bury him just yet.

Remember this time last year. How good was the band? There is a long time between now and MB.

Very, very true. Another suggestion I have would be to have a talk with him and explain your concerns. Then offer your help and support. See what his response it. It should tell you a lot. Be prepared to follow through with your help and support.

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:42 pm

tubashaman wrote:happened with my band after my freshman year

2 Options

Option 1, if yall score extremely low at contests not on purpose, the director will probably be let go, or get a group of leaders to go infront of the school board

Option 2, get the band together and basically lead they band without a director, whats bad about this is that the director would still get the credit for the band and stay for a year

The Big Ben wrote:Good God, man... Get over yourself

Thanks, Ben. I was having trouble holding that one in.

DaTubaKid · Post by **DaTubaKid** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:38 am

Sadly, what tubashaman said about people dropping out because the quality of the program has gone down is mostly true. There are always going to be people there who want to do it because it's been successful in the past and want to be a part of that success (nothing necessarily wrong with that).

It's the job of those other people, those few people who are there purely for the love of music, not the love of success, to lead the band members through this difficult time.

It's cheesy, but my first high school band director once used as a band quote "Attitude makes the difference." I had two band directors in high school, and a new one came in right after I graduated, and we had a situation like this. The guy we had for my last two years supposedly knew everybody. We'd go to contests and people would rave about how lucky we were to have him as a band director. Ya know why he left? Because of all the stubborn people in the band who decided to make a big deal about band not being as fun as it used to be and letting everyone know about it. The band had a completely crappy attitude towards him. I feel sorry for the guy, I had no problems with him. But then again, I wasn't there to "have a good time" or "be with friends."

Moral of the story: You want the band to improve? It'll never be the way it was, not with a new band director. Make the best of it. Talk to the director. But most of all, have a positive attitude about it all times, especially around other band members.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:48 am

tubashaman wrote:and big ben, as I said, it is about the group enjoying what they produce, 3 or 5 people CANT tell a BAND how it is doing, the BAND decides if they like their performance

It seems the band is not enjoying the connection with their director and the progress made, so something must be done about the director

You shoulda quit while you were ahead.

I guess the 3 to 5 people are contest judges? I don't know because I've been in contests only a few times and we never really gave two shits about them. Our thing was variety shows. Our director was an old time road band musician who was also kept quite busy in the local union hall playing for visiting acts like the circus, ice shows and enumeral big band dance gigs. We got the entire school involved in singing, dancing and playing. We had a gas. Of the kids I graduated from school with 35 years ago, 10 of them have consistently made all or part of their living playing music. Of the rest of us, about 30 are playing still, some more than others. (Total of about 400)

I guess this is not the environment you are playing in. If you want to make a living, I'd have to say that getting lots of calls from the union is one way of doing it. Nevertheless, if you try to follow the leader and show musical leadership in your own section, you might be surprised just how good you might get to be.

Making music in a group is a balance of leading and following and the sublimation of individual will for the good of the group. Groups need leaders and they need followers, too. I was and probably still a good follower. I never have had the training to really be that good on my horn- the lessons I have had the last few months have been the only ones other than school band I've ever had in my life. I've practiced and can play the parts assigned me. I show up on time. I speak positive about the other players around me. I help fold the chairs at the end of the night. I do what I can to make the group as a whole work.

Get behind the director. Follow what's going on. Maybe what the guy needs is to have people shut up and go the direction he is trying to go. Let the guy get his confidence up and you might just be surprised how much better he might be.

Jeff "Going back to YouTube to look for drag queens" Benedict

Blake Dowling · Post by **Blake Dowling** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:33 am

Having gone through 5 directors and numerous substitutes through highschool i feel compelled to put my two cents in.
my highshcool band went through the same thing, only the "great" director left before my freshman year, the first director was great, but 5 weeks into the year he was promptly fired for personal reasons. the band then was student/sub led till spring semester when we got a fresh bachlor's grad. I think she would have been great at middle school, but she didn't lead the band so much as follow it. the students (officers and section leaders included) constantly talked bad and were pessemistic and it really hurt. the band fell apart. She was promptly let go after my sophmore year, then the worst thing that can possibly happen to a high school band happened. the band parents took over. never will you get more problems than when parents feel they have more authority in the band room than the director. because of them the very promising 3 and 4 came and left in three weeks. finally lucky number 5 came and restored order, i didn't agree with everything that he did but i went along with it BECAUSE IT WAS HIS BAND!! (and i was the sergant at arms and tuba section leader) it really is that simple. everyone will fail if they are not given a chance to succeed. and section leaders and officers should never under any circumstance show anything but positive attitudes and complete trust in the instructions. those positions are the most important, if they fall then so will the entire band. and thats the truth no matter howgood the new director is.

fpoon · Post by **fpoon** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:27 am

I want to get him to push us more, so that we can at least be as good, if not better than we were...

Thats what YOU want. Be a leader dude - what does the band want?

Is everyone having fun? Thats the #1 question you have to ask yourself in marching band. Yeah, I know a lot of people out there (and in here

) are in to win competitions and whatever else, but honestly ask yourself - if you get top prize at every competition cause you have committed so much time to one activity, are you happy about that? Are you seriously going to tell your kids that "when I was your age, I was in a BOA "quality" high school marching band but didn't have time to do ANYTHING else"?

In high school, we always glorify previous directors when we don't like the new guy. But always remember - the old guy left. It's not this new guys fault. Just relax, enjoy high school, enjoy band and enjoy everything that goes with it. Fun trips, great (or not so great) football, and most importantly making lifelong friends. Those are things that will last far much longer than some stupid plastic trophy that says "yes indeed, you march in a line better than all others".

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:06 pm

This is ending the first year that we had. Going into his first year seemed better, though...

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:14 pm

tubashaman wrote:well, someone worse might come in, but you mentioned something about the techs and all of that. Why not hire a marching tech and and wind tech instead of a percussion tech, since the director is a percussionist.

But you cant bear it, i was music education until a couple weeks ago when i decided to do performance only, and its hard i will say, but someone needs a talk with your director

good question...some of the things that I have wondered myself, is about why he hasn't done that, along with why he has had his buddies do the tech stuff. He is buddies with the Drumline guy because of College, and his fiance is the person who is the colorguard person...As I said, this is going on to his second year, and last year, he kept a person from our better year...

P.S. I'll easily admit...you're right, scoob...

Arkietuba · Post by **Arkietuba** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:28 pm

Tubaguy9, I don't mean to beat a dead horse...

Just give this guy a chance and let him get in to the groove of things. I'm a music education major right now and I'm freaking out about teaching that first year. I've done a little conducting and it's not easy. I garuantee that he's doing what he feels is best right now. You're just used to having it done a different way.

I've gone through the same things (sorta)...in our high school we had a 9th grade director, 10th grade director and a Symphonic (11-12 grade) director so I had 3 band directors in high school and they all did things differently. Yet, we made first divisions and had one of the top jazz bands in the south...but we still weren't as good as "Mr. Brandon's" bands from the 60's-80's...they got national awards and recognition and we were kinda a joke in the state even though we still did well.

I know you think you know whats best for the band...believe me, we've all been there. We think we know more about music than our director and we could do a better job. But, he's the one w/ the graduate degree, and those my friend are hard to attain. Most undergrad music students here take at least 5 years to get their BA b/c of the level of teaching from the faculty.

So, if you feel that your band is still going down the crapper, talk to the guy. Let him know how you feel...I'm sure he's open to new ideas as a new teacher. Just don't do what you're doing by going behind his back and posting things like this...it's really disrespectful. Also, keep in mind that your old director seemed so good b/c he has always been there and knew everything in your mind...he had to start somewhere and I'm sure he probably started a little rocky too.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:15 pm

tubashaman wrote:I was referring to judges BigBen, judges can be biased as we all know, and as I said, the band according to what the original person posted, isnt happy

I figured and said as much. That's why I don't particularly think contests and competitions are a very good idea. They may be fun in a degree but, as you said, you really can't base your happiness on the opinions of three to five judges.

tubashaman wrote:For some people, band is their only social activity in school, and will be the thing they remember most, so it is vital they like it, a bad experience in band, if they have kids, those kids might not get to reap the benefits of being in band if they wish, and many parents have had a good band experience, thus they strive and push their kids to keep with band

I could make a comment about pushy parents but I won't. However, after all that has been written, would you change the advice which you gave the original poster?

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:22 pm

tubashaman wrote:
For some people, band is their only social activity in school, and will be the thing they remember most,

Those people deserve to be miserable.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:43 am

Biggs wrote:
tubashaman wrote:
For some people, band is their only social activity in school, and will be the thing they remember most,
Those people deserve to be miserable.

Unfair. A person who lives for band is no better or worse than a person who lives for sports. "The Ideal" is the well-rounded student. Reality is frequently different. If I can motivate a kid to pass math, English and science by letting them blow a clarinet in a marching band, so be it.

Jeff "26 years in the brain farm business" Benedict

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:47 am

tubashaman wrote:
It is the responsibility of the leadership, band, and director to make sure it is a learning experince and is enjoyable

I finally understand what my band director meant by that, but he was corny and said other stupid cheezy stuff

Good for you. You might find that many of the corny, stupid cheezy things adults say are actually good things. Kids are more motivated by being accepted. Adults are, too.