Treble or bass clef?

[sc_curtis]

Okay, I have a new one for me and wanted to get some other opinions before I made my mind up.

At one of the high schools I teach at, the director decided to convince a flute girl to switch to euph. I get the fortune of doing the switching. Director would like her to read treble clef for the obvious reasons. Would it be that much more difficult to teach her bass clef, as she is already learning everything else? It seems that it would be more difficult teaching bass clef later, when things have been mentally established. Why not teach her bass from the get-go?

If she learns treble, won't she also need to learn concert pitch as well, so she wouldn't be confused when someone says, "Play a Bb!"

I'm not really sold on the bass clef idea. If she would take to it faster with reading treble clef, then I'll do that. Experiences or thoughts?

Oh, and I did use the search feature, but way too many topics came up to sift through.

[quinterbourne]

The euphonium world is a competitive one. To be a good euphonium player, you should know both clefs.

That being said... if it's a matter of one or the other, bass clef should be learned. Not all music out there written for euphonium is in both bass and treble... basically all is in bass and only some come with treble in addition to the bass.

[MaryAnn]

I guess I don't get why it would be obvious that she learn treble clef. To me, it would be obvious that she should learn bass clef, but what do I know?

Given the option, I'd have her learn both. However, since you're getting the job of teaching her from her instructor, unless you can change his mind you'd be wise to implement the strategy he wants, since otherwise he might go find someone who is willing to do it.

That's the way of all jobs...you do what you're paid to do or they can go find someone else to pay to do it.

MA

[windshieldbug]

All of the treble brass instruments are transposed, so learning the fingering for any on treble clef will be immediately transferable ala British Brass Band.

Bass clef is actual pitch, and anyone will recall the difficulties presented when learning a new keyed tuba.

That being said, my recollection is that there is more music available in bass clef, and that one can then also play trombone or tuba music without the need of transposition.

I think you're correct in that as long as everything else is new, why not just drop the clef, too. The note/staff names will change, but forget actual perfect pitch, this is a perfect time to do it, anyway, unless the director is thinking of switching her yet again...

[lgb&dtuba]

Why not simply ask the band director why he wants her to learn treble clef baritone instead of bass clef if it's bothering you?

There are many reasons for knowing one, the other or both. And lively discussions to be had over that. None of which may be relevent to the issue at hand.

For example, in the Little German Band we use both treble and bass clef parts and they aren't the same. A fair amount of German blasmusik has both parts. Being able to read and play both is a definite advantage.

And that case is also irrelevent to your situation.

Jim

[Chuck(G)]

I'll only add that it can be very frustrating when dealing with a TE group where the euphoniums consist of bass- or treble-clef only readers. This forces the librarian to keep double the number of parts for the euphoniums.

While it's probably okay for a euphonium player to prefer BC or TC, refusing to read a part written in the non-preferred clef is not a good thing.

Perhaps we could settle upon a compromise--how about writing all euphonium parts in tenor clef?

[Rick F]

I also don't see why 'treble clef' is obvious. She reads the TC staff now, but it's concert pitch for flute.

From a person who is now 60 and STILL can't read bass clef, I would suggest she learn the bass clef while she is learning the fingerings for euph. She can always learn TC later... but before she gets too old

Everytime I try to teach myself bass clef, I keep thinking in terms of transposition. Of course, reading TC makes reading the tenor clef easier... read as written - add 2 sharps

[Teubonium]

Any serious eupher should read both clefs. But for starters, teach bass clef. Treble can come later.





Teubonium "a eupher who has read both clefs for over 50 years"

[sc_curtis]

You all have confirmed my initial opinion.

Treble clef was obvious in the director's eyes, since she already knew that clef, but I agree that the transposition of it would be more confusing than it has to be. It is this reason above all else that I hesitate at the beginning about it. I'll probably give her an explanation of why I think bass clef is important, and then add that we'll work on the treble later on.

Thanks!

[BopEuph]

I don't think it matters what clef the student starts on. It really isn't a big deal until around 12th grade or even college level.

I didn't read my first TC part until 12th grade. Then, when I was starting to buy my own literature, I've noticed something. Some music comes with both TC and BC, but some music may only be one or the other. This was especially true with some of the European composers. For the military band auditions, each excerpt has been one or the other.

Besides, it really doesn't matter what clef at the moment. The student is a beginner. I don't think either is going to be harder or easier. They both have an equal amount of challenges.

Nick

[sc_curtis]

Yeah, ok, I get it, but the question was which clef you guys thought would be better, if either. If you knew the director like I do, it doesn't really matter to him. He was just saying that to her as part of his pitch. "You already know the clef, think how easy it would be." He really won't care what clef she is reading, as long as she doesn't get drool on the music as the other idiots in the section are prone to do.

For the record, I went with bass clef, and she's really excited about it. She wanted to learn the new clef anyways.

[Dean E]

Yeah, ok, I get it, but the question was which clef you guys thought would be better, if either. If you knew the director like I do, it doesn't really matter to him. He was just saying that to her as part of his pitch. "You already know the clef, think how easy it would be." He really won't care what clef she is reading, as long as she doesn't get drool on the music as the other idiots in the section are prone to do.

For the record, I went with bass clef, and she's really excited about it. She wanted to learn the new clef anyways.

I'd find out what she wants to do. It's very simple to ask. Does she like puzzles and mysteries? Or does she just like keeping things simple, with no plans for understanding or practicing theory? What are her needs and disposition?

I've not had piano lessons, but if the difference between the clefs were a big deal, you wouldn't see two-handed playing from printed music.

[oldbandnerd]

I have found that being able to read bass clef has worked in my favor. I get asked to play in small groups and will have to read from whatever part they have available. This includes basson,bass clarinet,tenor sax, tuba and even the trumpet part .
I did not learn to read bass clef until I started playing again just 4 years ago . It was a pain to do it because I taught myself and did it the worse way possible. I was transposing while playing instead of just learning to play in bass clef . I still can't tell you note names right of the bat sometimes but will have to think what it transposes to in treble or vise versa .But I am getting better at that .