Suggestions for a bigger mouthpiece...

[Arkietuba]

Yeah, that's been one of my concerns too...but Dr. Young feels that if I get the tuning slide lengthend it might make it too low and then I can't raise it up. I'm not sure I'm quoting him 100% correctly. If I get a longer slide, I might have a problem if I have to play in a colder environment.

I'm not saying that I'm really out of tune. I'm only 5 cents sharp in most cases. Sometimes I counter this w/ alternate fingerings...but on the notes I can't do this on I have to lip down

[Tubaryan12]

Do what I did....sousaphone bits. Problem solved....and if it gets cold, remove them. I like my tone....but I'm usually between 10 and 20 cents sharp. It was that way when I played my horn every day (college), and its that way when I play once or twice a week (now). Bigger mouthpieces didn't help much, but deeper ones did. In the end, I play the mouthpiece I like the best and add 1 sousaphone bit.

(p.s....5 cents sharp should be able to be handled by the tuning slide, If you need more slide, you're probably more than 5 cents sharp when you don't lip the notes down)

[Steve Inman]

Playing sharp could be due to a smaller oral cavity (not tooth decay), tongue / throat not relaxed. But if 90% of the notes are sharp, it sure sounds like you need to pull the main slide and then correct for the 10% of the notes that are then going to be flat. That's just simple logic. I would agree with the votes for a lengthened tuning slide -- which may be able to be done so that the "all-the-way-in" position is the same as today -- possibly -- so nothing is lost.

A sousie tuning bit is a very clever solution. I use one with my Eb, to adjust the playing position a bit (very helpful for this) and to help with a tuning slide issue -- can't pull it quite enough or the horn isn't quite tuned for A440.

A bigger volume mpc may also help.

Steve suggests (in this order):

1. Ask Sam if he has a sousaphone "tuning bit" available that he could send you (hopefully plated the same as the color of your horn -- lacquer or silver). Try this first.

2. Hunt for a mouthpiece with a little more volume. Try this 2nd. I hate to suggest a big mpc change as it may affect more than just your intonation -- embouchure change!?!??

3. If these fail, then ask Sam to help w/ the tuning slide. I think that is the proper solution, but #1 above has the same potential to help, may offer improved playing position (or may not) and is a lot simpler.

4. If all of those fail, please send me your horn and I'll trade you a 1975 Yamaha FG-160 acoustic guitar for it ... guaranteed not to play sharp if you line up all of those 6 tuner thingies correctly ...

[tubatom91]

PT-88 I love mine, I don't know how that compares to a PT-83 but its pretty big to me.

[Arkietuba]

Well, I don't have much room to pull out my tuning slide...it's pretty much as far out as it can go...and my 1st valve slide is about 3" out (which is fairly far even though it's only about 2/3 of the way out). Dr. Young was just saying that the slide might help, but he's concerned that it may lower the pitch too much since I'm not that far out of tune when I play right in the center (5-10 cents).

I'm not worried about a mouthpiece change right now. I've done it before and I'm still in college so I have plenty of time to get used to it. Plus, I was thinking of something along the lines of the PT-88 (since I like the PT mp's) but I just wanted to hear some other suggestions.

[iiipopes]

You said 90% of the notes were sharp and only @ 10% were either flat or in tune. Those few notes wouldn't be the 5th partial notes, would they? That would be a definite confirmation of Scooby's advise.

[Chen]

Why don't you try your friend's PT-48 and let us know if it does bring your pitch down.

[Arkietuba]

Well, I believe he got rid of the PT-48 and now he has a G&W Alan Baer mp...my prof. does have a PT-50 but he says that might be a little to awkward for me.

Let me clarify the embouchure thing, my left side of my mouth is a little weaker than the right side. I even notice it when I talk...I tend to talk out the right side of my mouth. I practice in front of a mirror to see what's happening. The left side would shake a little or wobble. Now, it's fine. I spent 4 hours a day working on it my freshman year. I know I come across as an arogant a-hole...I'm really not...I've worked very hard to get my embouchure working for me instead of against me. It's not a matter of air/embouchure or anything like that. I play in tune on my trombone (I know technically anyone can play in tune on a trombone). I only have to pull my main slide out 1". I'm not sure why I have to pull out so far...it could be the horn. No one else has really played the horn extensively other than the guy I bought it from (principle of the AR Symphony) and he had noticed some tuning problems but they were fixed with alternate fingerings.

[Roger Lewis]

It sounds to me like there is something bigger going on with your embouchure that may not have been discovered to this point. I know the one thing that tended to drive the pitch up on a dozen students I inhereted from another teacher was embouchure related - not air, not mouthpiece, not horn.

Get a visualizer and sit down with your teacher and have him check the direction of the air stream when you are buzzing. I think you will find that your teacher will see something unusual and steer you down the right path.

My biggest suggestion is to work on this specifically with your teacher. Dr. Young is a great guy and a good friend of mine. You need to work on this with him. You will get a lot of good advice here, but sometimes too much data makes things worse rather than helping. To me, what you are trying to correct (if it is what I think it is) would require a simple change to you. Going to a bigger mouthpiece will cost you on articulation and clarity. You will gain depth, but I think you will wind up sacrificing on many other fronts.

While many mouthpieces change sound, rarely do they change pitch. If you want to lower it 5 cents, go to a Euro shank mouthpiece. Personally, I would take Mr. Gnagey up on his offer for a longer slide. Ask him to build it so that you can push the pitch either way by at leas 40 cents. Sam's a great guy and he can make this work for you.

Going back to my initial statement, I think there is something else wrong here that we are overlooking. I think we are attempting to treat the symptom not the disease.

I hope this doesn't come across too harsh, but I tend to call 'em as I see 'em.

Good luck to you on this.

Roger

[Arkietuba]

I just tend to play sharp.

You might list (here) the makes/models of tubas you've played where the pitch has been above A=440.

If you've played twenty different makes/models of tubas...OK, you play sharp.

However, if you've played three or four, there's a bit of a chance that those four tubas were all "sharp"

I think you may be on to something...maybe...I've really only sat down and tuned 4-5 different horns and 4 of them were 4/4 which I tended to "overblow" since I play with a TON of air. This Gnagey horn I have now is not a huge horn but it plays like one. I've sat down and sometimes it's inconsistant (tuning wise)...probably has something to do with the physics of the small practice rooms compared to the huge office Dr. Young has.

I know sometimes I don't sound like a very dedicated tubist (referring to some of my posts) but I work TOO hard sometimes. My freshman year I spent upwards to 30+ hours a week in the little practice rooms. Now, I have more ensembles to play in (usually 10 or more a semester) so that takes away from my practice time, then there's girls...that sometimes takes some time away. But, my point is, I play a lot and spend a lot of time in the little 6' x 4' practice rooms we have here.

I am listening to what you guys/gals have been saying and I'm gonna talk it over with Dr. Young again once school starts back...but I'm gonna have to trust his opinion over yours since I've been taking lessons for about 7 years from him...but thanks for the input (just wish there were more posts about actual mouthpieces).

[olaness]

Hi!

I had the opposite problem for a while - I was playing with a group that played at a ridiculously high pitch, higher than my tuner could get at... I tried everything short of cutting my instrument (wouldn't be too good for playing with groups at normal pitch), and ended up with shaving my mouthpiece down so it went further into the instrument. This is some years ago, so what I'm saying next may be wrong since it's taken from my memories of investigating this: apparently modifying the length of your instrument near the mouthpiece has greater effect on tuning than further towards the bell, so smaller changes in length are required for the same effect compared to where the tuning slide is.

My suggestion is to try and find a mouthpiece with a larger shank, so it sits further proud of the instrument than it would do normally, or try to get hold of an insert between the instrument shank and the mouthpiece. I have seen these latter devices although i know very little about them (manufacturer, where to get hold of etc). If you get that sorted then you will have much more freedom in terms of choosing a mouthpiece that suits you and sounds good with you, and your instrument will also keep a higher resale value than if you lengthened the tubing.

Sorry I'm not keeping to the initial idea and suggesting a large mouthpiece but I hope my advice helps anyway.

Ola

[olaness]

Also, on another note, I noticed when I was a student, that my playing changed in rather consistent ways depending on the type of practice room i had been practising in. There were quite a few different types at my college, some made me play out of tune, some made my sound bigger, some made it smaller etc. This was also confirmed by other tuba students (both by listening to me and by their own experience) and by some of the visiting tutors, too. Strange phenomenon and I can't explain it, but it happened to me and others at my college, so I'm sure it could happen to you too...

[Arkietuba]

then there's girls...that sometimes takes some time away.

Simple; just date female tuba players!!


The sousa bit thing sounds like a SUPER easy experiment.

Hmmmm...not too many options here in Arkansas...I think I'll stick to the flutes and clarinetists...(though the flutes are generally a little crazy...especially the last one I was with, she was psycho)