MW piston valve angles

[smurphius]

From the experience that I have had with these horns...

The valve placement on the 2145, 2155, and 2165 are veerry different, with the 2155 being the crappiest. This is for a good medium sized hand. I could see where MW instruments might be difficult to play if you have larger hands. But... if you can't afford a Perantucci, it's a good alternative.

Rotory tubas always seem to have less ergonomic problems than pistons... of course I hate rotors, but that's beside the point...

[Stefan Kac]

When I got my 2141 last July, the thing I had the most trouble adjusting to was the fifth valve, which I found to be almost unmanageably low. Somehow, over time, I just got used to it. I like the pistons on the 2141; I had some serious wrist and hand trouble with the YFB-621, but it's all gone now. For the record, I am fairly tall (a bit over 6'1''), but with fairly small hands.

[pierso20]

All things can ge gotten used too....sometimes.

I play a Mirafoen 1290 -- and it was a bit wide for my hands, but workeable and now it is quite comfortable....but it all depends.

You don't want to put yourself into a situation where your playins becomes affected overall. I usually take off thumb rings on many horns for 2 reasons. 1) I have small hands and the thumb ring can impede on my 5th valve playing, and 2) I was finding myself using the ring as a crutch and putting hand weight on it...which causes tensing and thus, made faster playing overlly difficult.

Basically, if the 5th valve is is a spot where it's awkward or weird, then it is workeable. BUT when it is causing your hand to tense up, it could possibly cause damage to you playing, and if not it would surely have a negative affect on your playing.

I recently tried a MW SlP and it was a great great horn....BUT I have small hands, and the large piston set forced my hand to tense. I COULD play with the 5th valve, but I knew I wouldn't be able to perform as well using the valve.

So my advice to you is, pay attention to your hand. Just like with my thumb ring problem, your hand needs to rest and be comfortable without causing undue stress. Otherwise, like any new horn configuration, it takes some getting used to.

[pierso20]

Don't let 5th valve or thumb ring placements ruin an otherwise good decision. Any repairman worth his salt can rearrange them to fit you.

Doc

GOOD point

If only I had the money to 1) buy an amazing horn 2) have some rearranging done

HAHA

[iiipopes]

If only I had the money to 1) buy an amazing horn

Keep saving.

2) have some rearranging done

It might be cheaper than you think.

It is. On my Miraphone I had not only the thumb ring repositioned, but the paddles as well. OK, I know we're talking pistons here, but even then, there are ways to deal with offset buttons, for example, soldering coins on the top of solid metal piston buttons. With that and the ability to reposition position and angle of leadpipe and receiver, there is absolutely no reason for a tuba to not be perfectly adjusted to individual ergonomics. Think about it: quality tubas cost thousands of dollars, even used. Just like you wouldn't buy a suit without having at least the trousers hemmed properly, what's a hundred or so to get it tailored perfectly to you?

[pierso20]

If a serious player, even a half-assed serious player, lets the very best horn go by because of thumb ring, valve angle, or doesn't-sit-right-on-my-lap (get a stand, you f*cking moron), then you don't have any business spending THOUSANDS of dollars on anything, except for some additional brain cells (good luck on THAT purchase).

Another thing that pegs people as non-thinkers is the fact that they will spend THOUSANDS of dollars on an instrument, but bitch because they don't want to spend the dough for a quality case or bag. If you can't afford the extra few hundred bucks (read: too chickenshit to protect your enormous investment), you have no business getting the horn in the first place. Don't have the dough to check out a few mouthpieces? Then you haven't saved enough. People are short-sighted. They can't see past the instrument.

Doc

All of this i understandable, but seriously....

Sometimes we are on a budget...in fact most of the time we are all on budgets. And I am NOT willing to get a horn that is not as nice just so I can afford a certain case or mouthpiece or custom work. If the case you refer to is someone being cheap, then I agree. And I am not exactly sure where this rant came from anyway, since noone here was really COMPLAINING. I was sincerely giving my 2 cents on something. And for some people, valve angles and etc. are important, because they can't afford 'tweaking' after spending $8000. You're right...sometime it's because we didn't save enough, but in many cases we can't wait that extra time.

Especially your comment "if you can't afford a few extra hundred bucks then you have no business getting the horn in the first place".

How shortsighted of you! I know your intentions are good, but would you settle for an instrument that is below par to the one you want just because of price? I would rather wait on a case and be extra careful, or not tweak the horn, than get a lesser horn so I can afford some of these things.

The original poster was asking a genuine question, and I was answering based off of the information he gave. If you want a horn that requires little of no "tweaking" right out of the store, then you have to make certain choices.

Your post was slightly negative and I don't know exactly who it was directed to. Maybe not me, but maybe it was me. All I know is that noone in this post was "bitching". So why are you "bitching" about their "bitching"? Do what you want and have your thoughts, but c'mon.....

I let valve angles influence my horn choice because the "very best horn" includes this aspect. I CAN and HAVE found the very best horn for me (at the time and for the cash) that has a comfortable hand placement and etc. It required no tweaking. So in answer the the original post, it is possible and if you can do it, great.

(oh and just so you know, some STAND are not a viable replacement for it sitting funny on your lap. Because as we know, stands tend to allow the heavyness of a horn to pull it forward, and this can cause leaning which is just as uncomfortable to the problem.)

So in other words, don't make assumption or get angry about other people's choices or questions or suggestions. To every man his own way. You don't see me complaining about people paying $12,000 for a horn, then spending 1200 for work done on it, then just selling it a year later because it's not what they "want/need at the moment".

So in response to the original post....

Buy the horn that is best for you overall. Whether hand comfort is part of the decision, your choice. Tweaking is an option.....but of course, it costs money. If you can get a horn that you want to tweak down the road...just make sure it's relatively comfortable in the mean time. No need to get a hand injury.

[pierso20]

haha...I wear many shoes. thankfully none of those.

I was just surprised at how riled up you became..haha

[MartyNeilan]

Thanks guys.

I'm not at all worried about the thumb ring (really a minor thing) or 5th valve paddle (might not use it! ).

Yeah, just use false tones.

[pierso20]

Well, in my poor analogies, I was using thumb ring and 5th valve as examples...BUT I understand what you mean.

Me being small in stature, pretty much every tuba is large to me...even a small one...haha

How's the "search"? any good ideas?

[MartyNeilan]

Well, in my poor analogies, I was using thumb ring and 5th valve as examples...BUT I understand what you mean.

Me being small in stature, pretty much every tuba is large to me...even a small one...haha

I am barely 5'7" and never had any ergo issues with that horn. As a matter of fact, I found it one of the most ergonomic (for me) and the valves not quite as spread as the MW large pistons. If you will notice, there are / were additional rods on the 1st and 4th slides that came down, allowing you to not have to reach your left hand all the way up. There should at least still be the fittings to attach something, you could even rebend a trombone lyre. The slides were not relocated that high, that is just one of the anomolies of the 1290's attempt at a super open wrap.
Perhaps using something like a DEG stand, or a sitting on a cushion (don't knock it, many big name pros have done that, beats your butt sinking into a scooped out seat.)

[pierso20]

I am barely 5'7" and never had any ergo issues with that horn. As a matter of fact, I found it one of the most ergonomic (for me) and the valves not quite as spread as the MW large pistons. If you will notice, there are / were additional rods on the 1st and 4th slides that came down, allowing you to not have to reach your left hand all the way up. There should at least still be the fittings to attach something, you could even rebend a trombone lyre. The slides were not relocated that high, that is just one of the anomolies of the 1290's attempt at a super open wrap.
Perhaps using something like a DEG stand, or a sitting on a cushion (don't knock it, many big name pros have done that, beats your butt sinking into a scooped out seat.)

Well, actually I do sit on a cushin...haha. And a far as comfort, it really isn't all that bad. I did take the thumb ring off because...well, I don't usually like them anyway. I tend to put pressure on them which stiffins up my hand. And where the slides are is actually good because it makes them even more accessible to me.

My main "problem" (though it's not really a problem persay) with the horn is that it is kinda "coming apart" I just have a few things I need to send it to the shop for and then it'll be good. on emain brace came apart from the soldering and etc. The other thing is, this horn is more difficult in managing my air with. It is nice to have little resistance because it helps give an open sound, but it requires more work than other horns, and I really think I may be just looking for something different. Though, if I never had to get rid of this one, it'd be ok too.

I really just tend to prefer a tighter wrap vs. an open wrap. I can put my arms around a horn, but the height can annoy me. haha. But still, it's a great horn.