Meinl-Weston visit *with pictures*

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Meinl-Weston visit *with pictures*

Post by Wyvern »

I have just been on holiday to Germany and Austria, making some musical visits on my way which may interest TubeNeters. Here is report 2 of (I expect!) 4.

Unlike my visit to Rudolf Meinl (viewtopic.php?t=22407), Mark Carter of Mr.Tuba had pre-arranged my visit to the factory of Wenzil Meinl where Melton/Meinl-Weston tubas are made at Geretsried, south of Munich.

I approached from the south after visiting Berchtesgaden and was struck by how rural and scenic the area is, with the best sighting I have ever had of a fox while on my journey.

On arrival, I was greeted by Herr Volkmar who speaks good English to show me around. This is a bigger operation than Rudolf Meinl, but still a relatively small factory with me only seeing about dozen workers around the place.

Herr Volkmar took me through the process of manufacture. The brass comes into the factory in sheets and tubes where they can get the correct diameter. I saw how the tubes are bent as below. This is part of a Fafner of which they seem to being doing a batch during my visit.

<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 2.JPG"></a>

After bending, they look like this.

<a><img src="http://lh4.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 3.JPG"></a>

They now have to be opened out into exactly the right size. This is done by putting into a die as below and then hydraulically blowing out into shape.

<a><img src="http://lh4.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 1.JPG"></a>

This is done for most tubas, but those hand-made, or where the correct size tube is not available are made from sheet metal. Fittings are then added so they look like this.

<a><img src="http://lh3.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 0.JPG"></a>

We then moved onto the bell construction. These are made from sheet metal cut to the right size using templates

<a><img src="http://lh3.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 7.JPG"></a>

These sheets are then very skillfully bent and soldered around a bell shape using zig-zag joints.

<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 9.JPG"></a>

...and then spun reasonably smooth.

<a><img src="http://lh4.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 4.JPG"></a>

All component now go into the all important polishing shop to provide the finish we love. This is a dirty process which is also very hard work

<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 5.JPG"></a>

Assembly can now take place with the valves actually coming from the B&S factory

<a><img src="http://lh3.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 2.JPG"></a>

With the result of another Fafner just completed

<a><img src="http://lh3.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5G ... 3.JPG"></a>

And more tubas made ready for dispatch - the lacquer, or silver plating process taking place at the B&S factory (somewhere for my next German tour :wink: )

<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 6.JPG"></a>

Having been shown around the workshops, I was then taken up to the playing room to be left with this wonderful selection to try

<a><img src="http://lh3.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 0.jpg"></a>
<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 2.jpg"></a>

There were a lot of F tubas I did not have time to touch, so I concentrated on the CC and BBb.

I had the chance to compare the 2000, 2165, 2265, Baer and Thor. They all played wonderful and sounded great in the good acoustics of the playing room. The 2165/2265 noticeably felt bigger than the Baer which I thought easier to handle. The 2000 sounded good, but it was the Thor that really grabbed me - what a sound - I joked with Herr Volkmar that if they were giving a free sample I would take the Thor! He explained that the Thor although a piston valve CC is designed internally more along German, rather than American lines with it having the playing characteristics of the best German BBb of easy slotting of notes, good intonation and an open low register.

Here is the Baer, Thor and 2000 side by side. The Baer is apparently particularly difficult to make, thus the high price for this model.

<a><img src="http://lh6.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 8.JPG"></a>

I then moved onto BBb, trying the new top valve and front valve Howard Johnson, and an 18 and 25 (gold brass) rotary valve.

They once again all played well, but I thought the front valve Howard Johnson noticeably better than the original top valve with it being more open blowing. Herr Volkmar confirmed that I am not the first player to think it better! The rotary valve version prototype was also there but not playable - apparently they have still not got it satisfactory to go into production.

<a><img src="http://lh4.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 3.jpg"></a>

The 18 and 25 both proved good BBb which I would not mind playing. Line up below Thor, 18, HJ top, HJ front, 25.

<a><img src="http://lh5.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 2.jpg"></a>

Having arrived at 10:30am, I now had to be on my way, as everyone was going to lunch, just spotting these hunting horns, they also make, on my way out.

<a><img src="http://lh4.google.com/Jonathantuba/Ro5H ... 7.JPG"></a>


Postscript

That evening I went to a concert of the Munich Philharmonic playing Mahler 9. I was expecting a German F tuba, but to my surprise a big York style CC came on played by an American tubist!

My next report will be of my visit to play with a band in Austria.
Last edited by Wyvern on Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by dtemp »

I remember visiting that place. Everyone was super nice and willing to help answer any questions. It was really cool to see how much craftsmanship actually goes into those horns.

Ahh...memories.
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Post by Tubanese »

WOW :shock:
Very COOL!
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Post by Wyvern »

Bob1062 wrote:So you didn't get a chance to compare the 2141 to your 2040/5? :lol:
No Eb's to be seen :roll:
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Post by cjk »

I was there just over a couple of months ago. No Ebs then either. :(

Everybody was really nice. They actually unwrapped a Thor which was ready to ship so I could play it.

--Christian
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Post by Wyvern »

Bob1062 wrote:EDIT- That "bigger bell" 18 looks real nice. I should have me a honk on one of those sometime.
I really liked the 18. Not surprising as it apparently has the same 19" bell as my PT-20 CC, so sounds somewhat alike.
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Re: Meinl-Weston visit *with pictures*

Post by Wyvern »

Scooby Tuba wrote:BTW, so, you like that little horn they call "THE GOD OF THUNDER" (insert echo here...) :lol:

I knew you would... :D
Well, if any horn can persuade me to try pistons again, it is the Thor - but let's face it - I have enough tubas already :shock: :lol:
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Post by GC »

The web site says that the 18 has a 17.5" bell. Was the 19" on this one a new standard, or was that a one-off, or is the 19" an error?

If it has a real 19" bell, I wonder what a 19" bell could do for a model 25.
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Post by finnbogi »

Neptune wrote:No Eb's to be seen :roll:
I visited Geretsried two months ago and tried the 2141 and the 2040/5 E flat tubas. Both were wonderful horns but I rather preferred the rotary, for some reason I have never liked front action pistons.
I also tried the B flats and a few of the C horns, and I haven't been able to take my mind of the Fafner since. It is definitely at the top of my Most covetable things list.
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Post by Wyvern »

Bob1062 wrote:Did the front action HoJo seem weird with a .655 bore? I know the bore is definitely not everything, but it does seem sorta small.
Well it didn't seem weird to me. A more direct, clear tone than usual on a BBb. I would think it would be good for a BBb player who wants a small ensemble tuba.
GC wrote:The web site says that the 18 has a 17.5" bell. Was the 19" on this one a new standard, or was that a one-off, or is the 19" an error?
Sorry, don't know which.
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Fafner 4th valve location

Post by Steve Inman »

Okay everybody, go back to the Fafner photo -- THIS ONE matches the picture at the MW web site -- which does NOT have the 4th valve tuning slide brought "up top" like the MW 25. Yet in another photo shown in another thread, they DO have the 4th valve up top -- just like the MW 25 configuration on the MW web site.

So -- why the variation?

Very curious,
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Post by bttmbow »

What is that silver plated six valve F tuba? Looks pretty interesting to me. I don't think it's the Kodiak, but I could be wrong; it does look awfully big.

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cool

Post by ScotGJ »

Way cool! Thanks for sharing.
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The 6 valve F tuba...

Post by cambrook »

...looks to me more like the 45H-L on the MW page. There are slight differences, the pic on the MW page has the optional quint valve fitted, perhaps the silver one in the photo doesn't. In any case, the 3rd slide on the Kodiak goes up, not down, and the rest of the valve plumbing looks different. :shock:

http://www.baertracksmusic.com/index.ph ... t=1&id=243
Last edited by cambrook on Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by iiipopes »

Nice.
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Post by MikeMason »

that practice/travel tuba always cracks me up...does anyone know if prices for the kodiak or the travel tuba have been established?
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Post by Cameron Gates »

These are really great pictures.

I have a question. In the picture of the fella working on the valve cluster it appears to me that it is a 5 valve cluster with the last one hidden under his hand. The tubing off the valve closest to the table has got to be the first valve with the 2nd valve very evident also. So the question is: WHAT THE HECK IS THIS VALVE CLUSTER TO? I have never seen a line of valves with the 5th on the bottom.

Is this some kind of euro-only F?
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Post by Wyvern »

*removed because incorrect information*
Last edited by Wyvern on Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cjk »

Cameron Gates wrote:These are really great pictures.

I have a question. In the picture of the fella working on the valve cluster it appears to me that it is a 5 valve cluster with the last one hidden under his hand. The tubing off the valve closest to the table has got to be the first valve with the 2nd valve very evident also. So the question is: WHAT THE HECK IS THIS VALVE CLUSTER TO? I have never seen a line of valves with the 5th on the bottom.

Is this some kind of euro-only F?

I think that a 45SLZ F tuba I played at the factory had that arrangement. It was not the same arrangement as the picture on the MW website. The 46SLZ I played there had the 5th and 6th valves before the first. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of either since I was more interested in CC instruments.

Here's a picture of a 45SLZ apparently with a bunch of custom work (the leftmost tuba in the picture):
http://www.melton-tuba-quartett.de/engl ... farbe1.tif
Last edited by cjk on Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cjk »

Mike Johnson wrote:
bttmbow wrote:What is that silver plated six valve F tuba? Looks pretty interesting to me. I don't think it's the Kodiak, but I could be wrong; it does look awfully big.

CJH
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