Most overrated tubas?

WakinAZ · Post by **WakinAZ** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:15 pm

Without stepping on Marty's thread, I'd like to start this companion topic. So, which horns don't live up to their hype? Which ones deliver poor value/performance for the price paid? What was the "next big thing" that wasn't? (BE995 anyone?)

Eric "who has succumbed to the fad mentality before and regretted it" L.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:26 pm

Flame away if you must: anything and everything by Yamaha. Good tubas, but not great tubas for the price.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:35 pm

PT--- ANYTHING.

Most people I've met love playing them, but I've only heard a few people on them that I liked. Those people were the type of people that would make anything sound good.

As far as me playing them, my mouth and fingers love them, but I sound as bad as the people I'm bashing that play them. Taking a lesson from a certain someone, with them helping me very little just trying to push "their" horn on me, probably didn't help.

(ducks)

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:48 pm

WakinAZ wrote: What was the "next big thing" that wasn't? (BE995 anyone?)

Are you thinking of the "never escaped into production except for a few dreadful prototypes" Besson 985 F?

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:44 pm

No question:

THEIN.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:59 pm

iiipopes wrote:Flame away if you must: anything and everything by Yamaha. Good tubas, but not great tubas for the price.

It depends on how much you paid. I got my 621 for $3000 as a new demonstrator in 1991 or so. It would still be a good deal at the $4500 that would be in current dollars.

Rick "even a St. Pete is a good deal when it costs $900 new" Denney

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:15 pm

the elephant wrote:The ROTARY 6 is a very fine instrument, however, and is far more consistent. When the current trend towards pistons ends and desires swing back towards rotaries (you KNOW it will happen) I bet that old, used PT-6 rotaries will become the next Alexander or HB-50 or 2165.

Played one last week (PT-6 rotary). I was VERY impressed.

Cheers,

tubaman5150 · Post by **tubaman5150** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:22 pm

Gronitz.
Decent player, but sounded kinda "blah" to my ears.
For that much money, it needs to play itself!

Just my opinion for what little it is worth these days.

anonymous4 · Post by **anonymous4** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:14 pm

Doc wrote:Every PT 6P I've tried I thought was awful. Same for Hirsbrunners except for one: HB 6. That was a fine, fine instrument, IMHO.

Yes, the PT patrol might raise hell on here, especially with all of us who can blindly recommend the Miraphone 186 BBb or CC to just about anyone.

Doc

I'm not trying to back the PT patrol here - I don't even play on one. On first impression, I've never liked these horns, but according to some of my friends who are diehards, it "takes about a year" to really get used to your PT-6P. It guess you have to "get good on it" (as Wade was saying above) to appreciate the horn. Is it worth the time? If you're on the audition circuit, you're probably unemployed or working part-time at McDonald's, so time might not really be an issue.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:54 pm

I would be interested to see a list of Orchestra or major ensemble gigs won on a PT6.

I'm not saying that for any other reason, other than you keep saying it. So a list might legitimize what you are saying a little bit. I've just not seen many at auditions. Other than undergrads, who couldn't play well enough to be at the audition anyway.

Wes 'not been to a bunch of auditions, but enough to see that trend' pendergrass

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:12 pm

bloke wrote:
Scooby Tuba wrote:Well, PT6Ps have won a heck of a lot of auditions...
technically impossible.

GREAT PLAYERS have won some auditions while playing PT6P tubas.

bloke "and I can name models of tubas that I dislike much more than PT6 tuba that other GREAT PLAYERS have played while winning auditions"

Top Band on a YBB-321 wooo...sorry

Uncle Buck · Post by **Uncle Buck** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:53 am

DP wrote: Conn 2x

Are you referring to the 2J, or to the 24J/25J etc. models?

Albertibass · Post by **Albertibass** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:04 pm

i like the Besson 995, i really dont think its over rated. but yeah.....Miraphone 186....and the thor.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:34 pm

Everyone has their own, due to their personal experiences. For me the tuba which more than any other disappointed was a Miraphone 188. I know many here love them and I really wanted to make it work, but could just not get a decent sound from it - it was so bland and lacking in power. The other tubist in the band even commented "if you don't mind me saying, that does not sound so good!". So it went back and I got the PT-20 instead which I find has everything the 188 lacked.

The other model of tuba which is I feel way overrated here in the UK is the Besson 3+1 BBb (I am talking about the late model, 994 I think?). Ergonomically a nightmare to hold and the dullest sound I have ever got out of a tuba. I admire all those brass band players who somehow manage to make music playing that beast!

Albertibass · Post by **Albertibass** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:51 pm

bloke wrote:
Albertibass wrote:i like the Besson 995, i really dont think its over rated. but yeah.....Miraphone 186...
With a resale ceiling price of only c. $3500, how is a 186 "overrated"...??

...and with consumer demand hovering around zero, I don't see the 995 as overrated either.

Thor is priced thousands below the auto-recommended "vogue-y" tubas. Currently, the demand quotient on the Thor-thing is extremely low (defining that it, too, isn't overrated)...mostly because so few people have played them and so few people have formed opinions.
_____________________________________________________

To me, something is "overrated" if the price is quite high, the product is ho-hum, and consistent (teacher...??) recommendations followed by purchases are occurring in spite of these factors.

At a tuba shindig, I recently overheard a prominent university tuba instructor mentioning that he has many of his students buying _____ tubas. I had him A/B his conventionally-recommended model and a _______. Not only did he abandon his longstanding recommendation, but he talked to the vendor about buying the previously-unknown-to-him model for himSELF.

when i said the 186 was over rated, i meant by how much it gets pushed. it is a good horn, but i dont think it is as good as everyone makes it out to be for how much you hear about it. But i see your point, that is a really good price.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:15 pm

One indication of a tuba being "overrated" is its availability on the used market. For example, a few years ago Callaway golf clubs were touted as the ultimate golf club. With a few endorsements and good ads, they sold as quick as the company could make them. But only after a few months, they started showing up used in almost as great a quantity as new. Mind you, they are fine golf clubs, and many play them well, especially their wedges. But not me, and not a lot of other golfers.

By contrast, in proportion to the number of 186's sold new, both CC and BBb, there are very few on the used market. Moreover, a 186 that has wear will still sell as quickly if the price is right. There should always be some on the used market, as you would expect, with all sorts of reasons for being sold. And there are. This indicates to me that the 186 is not overrated, but sitting right in its market groove very well, or they would be dumped "en masse" as were the Calloway golf clubs.

And the bottom line for the 186 is that it plays well. Maybe not spectacular, but well. And at this point I've had the pleasure of playing several from all different years of manufacture, small and large bell, conventional and detachable. If your current instrument were suddenly put out of commission for some reason, such as an accident, and you had to pick up a tuba "cold" and play it, the transition to a 186 to make the gig work for anything but the largest orchestral gigs would be rather straightforward. And it was for me. I went from about as dissimilar tuba as you could have, my Besson BBb 3-valve comp, and I was still able to make the concert in only about a month of transition.

So, 186 overrated? No. Just keep it in context: a competent valuable workhorse that serves a variety of circumstances.

tubatom91 · Post by **tubatom91** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:22 pm

Scooby Tuba wrote:
tubatom91 wrote:Top Band on a YBB-321 wooo...sorry
You rock, dude!!!

bloke wrote:talk about 99% player / 1% tuba...

congrats

Thanks

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:54 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Is the PT-6 the "special" version of a VMI Neptune?

Its smaller brother - the PT-6 is 5/4 while the Neptune is 6/4

Bob1062 wrote:While I did like how the Neptune played, I really didn't like the sound that much.

Not much like a trombone - haha

jeopardymaster · Post by **jeopardymaster** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:03 pm

Meinl Weston was the manufacturer of choice in Rex Conner's studio at the U of Kentucky. I loved Rex, but never could care for that dead sound, the uneven intonation, or those nasty, clanky, SLOOOWWW valves, on just about every Meinl Weston model available circa 1975. I was convinced they were all just the spawn of Satan - with the exception of the Bell model. For several years I was the sole Mirafone player in a miasma of MWs.

Nowadays I hardly ever see one of those horns - I suppose most of them have been junked. But for quite a while that was pretty much all you could find in this part of the world.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:13 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I think it's both, but probably more of a cosmetic thing. I can't exactly place why either, but I DO know that I can't stand them.

Oh well.....

It seems more like a scream when I play one, and less like a subwoofer.

They are a little "point and shoot" for my taste. It is really hard to explain.

They work well in the upper register for me, especially in keeping the upper register from going flat like it does on horns with bigger bells---that seems to be the only thing I like about them.

TubeNet

Most overrated tubas?

Most overrated tubas?

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