Suggest a mouthpiece please - Newbie

[WakinAZ]

Bach 18 or Conn Helleberg. Search is your friend. There are many, many, many posts on this very subject, but they all boil down to the two choices above. Flattish rim and deeper cup - Helleberg. More rounded rim and medium cup, probably easier for noobs - Bach 18.

Eric "who started on a Bach 24AW" L.

[iiipopes]

My experience with a newer Bach 18 leads me to recommend one of the facsimiles instead, whether Blessing, Faxx, and especially for outdoors, a Kelly. The older Bach 18s had, I believe, a smaller throat than the new ones do, and better playability accordingly.

Is your Conn a 14K, a 20K or the fiberglass analogs to those two models? If it's a 14K, or its fiberglass analog, then either mouthpiece suggested above will work. With the 20K, with its larger diameter bell throat and bugle, the Helleberg 120 may be a tad dark.

The Kelly is cheap, durable, sounds good on a souzy, and every tuba player should have one in addition to whatever their main mouthpiece is for outdoor gigs in extreme temperatures. I even use mine on my 186 for outdoor community band gigs because it actually for me has a tad more core and projection than my Curry 128D.

As a newbie, if you have a "moderate" embouchure -- with your face and lips not too large, small, fleshy or thin, something like these mouthpieces in the 1.26 to 1.28 range of cup diameter, or 32 to 32.5 mm, with not too deep a cup nor too large a throat, may be the easiest to start learning on, so in addition to those above, here is a chart of others in that size range:

http://www.ibowtie.com/tubampccharts.html

I love my Wick 1 on my Besson, but it is about the deepest mouthpiece made, and as a true funnel, can really suck the wind out of you if you're not careful.

For some, the "other" Conn Helleberg, the 7, is a great mouthpiece, for others it's too shallow. Try it as well.

[ken k]

The Conn Helleberg is the standard helleberg from Conn. It has no number on it, but is sometimes refered to as the 120. The Helleberg 7B is a smaller version.

If you feel the Helleberg is too big for you to control, you could try the 7B.

FYI, Helleberg refers to August Helleberg who popularized this mouthpiece back in the early 1900's. I believe Conn made the first ones, but I could be mistaken. Since then "Helleberg" has sort of become a generic term for any deep funnel style mouthpeice, sort of the like the "kleenex" of the tuba mouthpeice world. So you will find many other Hellebergs or variations on that mouthpiece out there. They might have a less flat rim or a shallower or deeper cup but they all will be funnel shaped. For starting out the Conn is a good place to begin (and stay since many experienced players continue to use them also.)

ken k

[iiipopes]

The Conn Helleberg 120 definitely gets a "bigger" or "deeper" tone. A guy who played a Conn 11J for a couple of years on community band tried both. On the smaller bore, the 18 had very little depth. His tone was improved immensely with the Conn Helleberg. That's why I generally concur with all the above, except I think a Conn Helleberg 120 is too dark for a 20K. There are also the issues of price and availability. The Blessing 18 copy, the Faxx 18 copy, the Conn Helleberg, etc., all are good mouthpieces at a reasonable price and easily obtainable.

[poomshanka]

I'm gonna go against the grain a bit on this one. For years - in high school, college and an Air Force field band - I've preferred wider, shallower equipment on sousaphones. Miraphone C4/TU23, Marcinkiewicz N2/N4, and two custom pieces that eventually became the LOUD LM-10 and LM-12. The LM-10 and LM-12 might need stronger chops, but the Miraphone and Marcinkiewicz pieces should work just fine for younger players. That's what I played starting out.

With the possible exception of Bloke's multi-million dollar CC helicon, there aren't too many shoulder-mounted horns out there that anyone would mistake for a Thor playing-wise. Being able to control slotting on the horn seems to me to be at least as important as sound production, and it's not like the pieces I've mentioned produce an inherently bad sound.

On the 50 yard line, the last thing I want is a deep, woofy sound. All things considered, some of the least ideal playing situations can be encountered playing a sousaphone, and I like something that gives me the ability to slap the horn around a bit.

As always, just my $.02, your mileage may vary...

...Dave

[iiipopes]

Oh, yes, Conn does still make a 2. Now it looks like a Giardinelli, and it does come with everything, including a 5XJ tuba. I tried one; actually, it was given to me and I passed it along as well. A beginner's mouthpiece it definitely is. I couldn't get a low range worth two hoots and a holler out of it. Makes a good paperweight, however.

I have also played one of the old, plain funnel versions as well. Same falling off of the low end for me. A guy in one of the bands I play with uses one with his M-W Bell CC and doesn't understand why he has low range problems. I tried it. I told him and offered the use of one of my mouthpieces with better range. He just said he prefers upright double bass, doesn't play tuba that often, and he'd manage anyway.

The backbore on those Conn 2's is definitely different.

[bill]

All current models of Conn sousaphones USED to come a mouthpiece they no longer manufacture - the Conn 2. Although "small" by today's standards, it produces a nicely focused sound. If you like Harvey Phillips' tone (and are willing to practice monastically to obtain it), try and find a Conn 2. The Helleberg mouthpieces will "open a sound" for many players. I still play on a modified version of the HN White 26, although I am in the minority on that one. I sometimes use a Sear Helleberg, usually in the orchestra.

I agree with the advice given here about a Conn 2. I think there is also a current UM 2 on the market with is supposed to be like a Conn 2 and it may work for you. The HN White 26 is also like a King 26, I believe and I have used the King 26 for a number of different horns. These have a different shank taper from the "normal" American taper. They are very heavy and seem to work well for a lush resonant sound. The Helleberg will be easier to find than anything else mentioned, here. Harvey Phillips played a Conn 2 for his entire career. This narrows the field down a lot to two or three. I found the Conn 2 the most comfortable of the bunch but your Conn Helleberg should work very well for you, too. Don't get too fine before you get too good; pick a mouthpiece and stick with it.

[iiipopes]

Before WWII H N White used a different taper on receivers and mouthpiece shanks than the "industry standard." Not only are the tuba mouthpieces like that, but my uncle's Silvertone cornet I inherited is like that, and I had to scrounge eBay for proper mouthpieces - M2 and MC for "American" and "British" cornet tone, respectively.

[Tubaryan12]

I vote for the new Conn 2 (CKB2) as well. Wide rim (like the 24AW) and a throat bore that won't make you feel like the horn is sucking the wind out of you.

[Lew]

All current models of Conn sousaphones USED to come a mouthpiece they no longer manufacture - the Conn 2. Although "small" by today's standards, it produces a nicely focused sound. If you like Harvey Phillips' tone (and are willing to practice monastically to obtain it), try and find a Conn 2. The Helleberg mouthpieces will "open a sound" for many players. I still play on a modified version of the HN White 26, although I am in the minority on that one. I sometimes use a Sear Helleberg, usually in the orchestra.

Assuming you are young and healthy, play on the largest mouthpiece you can CONTROL.

Good luck!

Absolutely, in fact Conn shipped "2's" with many of their horns for many years. I bought a Conn 22J tuba from 1936 that came with the original mouthpiece that was shipped with it, a Conn 2. The first mouthpiece I ever had in High School in the early 70s when I first learned to play tuba was a Conn 2, that I still have.

I was told that a Conn 2 is very similar to the Helleberg 7B in interior size, just with a different rim and exterior profile. I don't know if this is true, but it is clearly smaller than a standard Helleberg. In any case I agree with those who haev suggested it, or one of the current variants as a good beginners mouthpiece.

[andrew the tuba player]

I learned on a 24aw as well. I find it to be a good beginner Mouth piece because its not to big, but not to small. Another good thing about it is theyer not hard to come across. I have like three. It's good untill you want to go for extreme ranges. I use a Loud LM7 now. i use it because i like to play really high and its easier to project. but, i would suggest a 24 AW. It'll get you around fine on the field.

[tubatom91]

I started on a yamaha 67C4 and then I bought a mirafone C4 which are prettymuch the same. Then I got a Helleberg all are excellent mouthpices and pretty resonable in price. I would recommend getting a C4 or a Helleberg.

[Steve Inman]

Smaller diameter, but deep -- Bach 24AW, but has a wide rim that I don't prefer. Similar in inside diameter to a Wick 3L.

A little bigger -- Schilke Helleberg (not Helleberg II) or Conn Helleberg 7B.

About the same size but probably a wider throat -- Wick 2L

About the same size as these is the Bach 18, which isn't quite as deep and may provide a little more edge to your sound -- which may help with a large-belled sousaphone.

Next size up is the Wick 1L (32.5mm diameter).

Slightly bigger is the Bach 12 (medium deep) and the "standard" Conn Helleberg (deep) -- both with an internal diamter of around 32.8mm

Schilke Helleberg II is about 33mm, I think.

You can go the Custom Music web site and check the "Accessories" section for all of the Perantucci mouthpieces -- "American" (funnel) and "German" (more bowl / cup shaped). These mpcs all have dimensions included so you can determine what is "smaller" vs. "larger". The "German" design will add a bit of an edge or "brightness" to your sound, while the "American" mpcs may give a bit darker sound -- more "fundamental" and less edgy.

I recently discovered the PT-44, which when used with my larger belled Conn 56J upright tuba, provides a lot of "core" or "fundamental" to the sound, which I like. According to a TubeNet trustworthy source (thanks Scooby) this mpc is similar to the Schilke Helleberg II, and also the "Loud" LM-7.

BTW -- if you cut back on the jello, that will also help with the burping ....

HTH,

[iiipopes]

If you want a really good chart on comparative tuba mouthpiece sizes, go here:

http://www.ibowtie.com/tubampccharts.html

[Donn]

I was told that a Conn 2 is very similar to the Helleberg 7B in interior size, just with a different rim and exterior profile.

That's what I think. But mine don't sound quite the same, the 7B is a little brighter. The 2's shank end isn't perfect, so it may not be a good example, but anyway the difference is not huge.