Help me attack these notes

[davet]

Our concert band has "Irish Tune From County Derry" on its rehearsal list for the first time. The 7 measures from 49- 55 have all the notes marked staccato and at the same time slurred.

I want to have this piece ready to go for Monday's rehearsal.

How do you play a staccato half note? How do you slur staccato notes?

Dave

[Chuck Jackson]

Legato tounge.

[eupher61]

yep. Chuck's on this one. But, isn't that an edition? I don't remember that marking in the original.

Which is a good segue into a side topic.

Markings and the misinterpretation of those markings.

F'rinstance, the _ _ _ marks, which we nowadays assume is long, connected, legato, whatever, full note values.

In the early days of banned writing, all the composers were accustomed to writing for strings. So, in Grainger and others of the era, a series of notes with _ _ _ should be slightly separated, since that's a loure' bow indication--the bow stops but continues in the same direction. That's the marking I remember in the "Irish Tune".

[davet]

isn't that an edition? I don't remember that marking in the original.

Yep- Arr. for Modern bands with New Parts by H. R. Kent- "Shepherd's Hey" on the other side of the sheet.

[Tony Halloin]

Euph61 seems to have the right idea, but let me attempt to clarify. When a composer writes a slur for a string instrument with a bow it is to show that the bow continues to move in the same direction. In other words four notes slurred would mean all four notes are to be played with a down bow (or all with an up bow). When a staccato is written with a slur, a composer is still looking for the separation that staccato indicates yet, with the feeling of them moving in same forward direction. Try to imagine a violinists playing separated notes with the bow moving all down or all up. The difference is subtle, but can be affective.

Best of luck.

[Chuck Jackson]

Euph61 seems to have the right idea, but let me attempt to clarify. When a composer writes a slur for a string instrument with a bow it is to show that the bow continues to move in the same direction. In other words four notes slurred would mean all four notes are to be played with a down bow (or all with an up bow). When a staccato is written with a slur, a composer is still looking for the separation that staccato indicates yet, with the feeling of them moving in same forward direction. Try to imagine a violinists playing separated notes with the bow moving all down or all up. The difference is subtle, but can be affective.

Best of luck.

I am going to split hairs here, with no offense made to the author. The particular bowing that Tony talks about is called a loure bowing. The string player will play succesive notes in one bow direction without stopping the bow, but by using a slight release of pressure on the first and third fingers of the bow hand(pointer and ring finer) to produce a semblance of seperation, totally akin to our legato tounge. There are abundant variations on the succesive upbow or downbow, but this is the bowing that is a direct correlation to this discussion.

Chuck'marrried to a violinist, teaches strings, anal-retentive"Jackson

[davet]

If I had JUST known that we were going to play this piece.... I heard the Army Concert Band play this at the steps of the Capitol earlier this month. I just basked in the beauty of the sound. I could have been focusing on the tubas and then asked one of the players about tonguing it after the concert.

[adam0408]

When I have a situation in which I don't know the piece and I have no idea how it should be interpreted, I do one of a few things:

*Forget about it until rehearsal (probably not the best option)
*learn the notes at a much more rapid speed than we will be playing it and worry not about interpretation
*Find a recording and work it out from that

your number one priority should be learning the notes and rhythms (although if I remember correctly this part is not rhythmically very complex) interpretation and articulation can be put in quickly at the first rehearsal.

[MileMarkerZero]

For me, that marking says "a little bit seperated."

But I tend to look at articulations in solo music very differently than in band music, and differently still from 5tet music.

In a solo, you can get away with playing very legato. Not so in a large ensemble. IME, playing very legato in a large ensemble is pointless for a couple of reasons...

1) the articulations get buried in what everyone else is doing, and it comes out sounding like one long note

and 2) You're more likely to drag.

As me old college director used to say: "You have to end one note before you can start another."

[peter birch]

How do you play a staccato half note? How do you slur staccato notes?

"you say potato, I say portato.."

[Alex C]

Our concert band has "Irish Tune From County Derry" on its rehearsal list for the first time. The 7 measures from 49- 55 have all the notes marked staccato and at the same time slurred.

How do you play a staccato half note? How do you slur staccato notes?

Dave

In your first rehearsal, slur them the first time and play them short the second time and see if your director notices. If he does notice, ask him which way he liked best. If he doesn't notice, just keep alternating.

Most directors would not notice until around, say, the tenth rehearsal.

Or you could have half the tuba section play short notes and the other half slur. Yes, that's it! Do that!

__________________

Alex "accused of being full of devilment sometimes and BS the other times" C

[MartyNeilan]

How do you play a staccato half note?

Technically,
A staccato marking means play the note at half its value.
However,
Most people do not adhere to this theoretical definition.

Getting back to the original question, I agree with either the legato tongue or very slight separation, depends on what everyone else is doing (hint, listen up), what the director wants, and even on how dry the hall is.

[davet]

"you say potato, I say portato.."

An all too rare response: One that is funny and the dead on right answer to my original question. At the same time makes me do some research to find out WTF portato is. I'd never heard the term. Fortunately I never throw anything away, so I referred to Willi Apel (required for Theory I- fall term 1968) and he came through for me once again!

I'm entertained, my questions is exactly and accurately answered, and my interest is piqued enough for me to actually learn something.

[peter birch]

"you say potato, I say portato.."

An all too rare response: One that is funny and the dead on right answer to my original question. At the same time makes me do some research to find out WTF portato is. I'd never heard the term. Fortunately I never throw anything away, so I referred to Willi Apel (required for Theory I- fall term 1968) and he came through for me once again!

I'm entertained, my questions is exactly and accurately answered, and my interest is piqued enough for me to actually learn something.

thank you
I have to confess that I learned the term portato only a few weeks ago when talking to a pro violinist and discussed various notes and how they should be attacks and released.
Portato (or portando) described a note that has a staccato dot and a tenuto line applied to it, it is too simplistic and unmusical to think of these notes in terms of half or three quarter length (the composer could or should have just written a quaver or dotted quaver). the player should give extra thought to the release of the note, and agree it with the other members of the ensemble.
PS this was a joke I have been waiting for weeks to crack with othe musicians