Wanted: Opinions about what are the best E-flats and why.

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:57 am

There are many new E-flats on the market. Some I have tried. Others I can't find dealers who sell them or players who own them. For example, MW 2040 5v, LMI Royal, Miraphone 1261 and Ambassador, Gronitz, and others.

What are your opinions of the E-flat tubas you have played? What is it about the tuba that make it stand out in a good or bad way? How do the new ones compare to older models? I really want to know...

Thanks for your input.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:25 pm

viewtopic.php?t=22307

This recent thread should be of some help.

Also -- check out the "Most underrated" and "Most overratetd" tuba threads that haven't moved too far down yet -- 1st or 2nd page of the forum, I bet. (edit / add -- I am GUESSING there may be some comments about Eb tubas in these threads -- don't remember.)

Also -- the Search feature should turn up a bunch of helpful info -- you can search the current forum archives or the "Old TubeNet" archives using the links at the top of the page ("Search old TubeNet", and "Search"). The results will take some wading thru, however.

Popular models often discussed include (but are not limited to):
Besson 983 compensating 4 front action valves
Besson 981 compensating 3 top / 1 side action valve
Willson 3400
Mein Weston 2141, 2040
Miraphone Norwegian Star and Star Light
Yamaha 321 (4 top action valves) / 381 (321 + dependent 5th valve in 4th valve tubing)
Various "older / vintage" models
I'm sure I've missed a few.

Which is/are best? All of 'em! There's a pro player somewhere that's used each and every Eb listed above, with very good results.

Cheers,

Steve ( #8 ) Inman

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:31 pm

How times have changed! Used to be that you'd get a snigger if you said you played Eb.

Good to see that folks are rediscovering them.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:32 pm

More info:

Steve (not a pro) Inman likes non-compensating Eb tubas with 5 valves. Steve likes both rotary and piston tubas, so I wouldn't limit myself to one or the other type arbitrarily.

Tubas at the top of my favorite list, based on those I've played, or on having played a similar model and having read a lot:

For a smaller (but not too small) Eb -- Yamaha 381. Can work in quintet. Will not be mistaken for a contrabass tuba -- i.e. distinctive bass tuba "size of sound". My current Eb tuba.

If I wanted a little bigger (and I may) with more of a German rotary F tuba sound -- Norwegian Star (Miraphone).

If I wanted a little bigger yet, a tuba I really like that could ALMOST be a one-tuba-does-it-all instrument for an amateur player like me (biggest group with single tuba is a church orchestra -- perhaps 4 tpts, 2 horns, 2-3 'bones, tuba in the brass section) -- MW2141.

Cheers,

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:09 pm

Out of the ones we've recently tried we've opted for LMI Royal BBb's and EEb's here.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:58 pm

Which model very much depends on how you want to use it and therefore the tone and breath of sound you require.

I have only played a few models but I would briefly comment:

Besson 981/982 - very good all purpose tubas, suitable for anything from quintet to full symphony orchestra. Can be rather stuffy in the low register (particularly if you are not used to compensated tubas). Very rounded in sound, near to a 4/4 CC.

B&S 3181 - Very similar to the Besson in tone, but a bit wider bore to make less stuffy in the low register.

Mr.Tuba piston Eb - almost identical to the B&S, but slightly redesigned to make freer blowing.

Miraphone 1261 - Feels larger than the Besson and makes even more a contrabass tuba sound.

Meinl-Weston 2040/5 - Completely different in tone from the above - more F tuba sounding, but at the same time can also hold its own in a large orchestra, or be used for quintets, solos, etc. Good open low register, but I would not use it for Prokofiev.

Rudolf Meinl Eb - Similar in tone to the 2040/5 with if anything an even better low register - very expensive, only made to order.

circusboy · Post by **circusboy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:54 pm

I wouldn't rule out the Cerveny models. They are very light weight, due to thin metal (i.e., they dent easily), but the ones I blew on a couple of years back were quite nice in sound and feel.

I hear that they can be inconsistent horn-to-horn, so be sure to try before you buy.

They take considerably fewer semolians to purchase than others mentioned. If cash is not a problem, I'd go for the Norwegian Star.

charlieJ · Post by **charlieJ** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:14 pm

When it comes to investing several thousand $$, followed by many hours with an effer (or any other tuba), the best Eb advice I can give is to locate a cluster of them, go there, and try them for yourself. Spend the money, and enjoy the time with all the different horns. Then I'd wear a blindfold and ignore the brand name to see what really works for you.

I'm a 40 year Eb player. I spent several years thinking about then buying a new Eb, and have played all the effers on the market except the Gronitz and new LMI. My favorites were the cheapest Eb at Dillons (MW 2040/4v), Norwegian Star and a Besson 981. All very different horns. The Norwegian Star was downright seductive, but not as much of a do it all horn as I had hoped. Went with the Besson, but the Star is on my list. It is all very, very personal.

Bottom line - they are all very good. So take some time and find one that works for you.

Chadtuba · Post by **Chadtuba** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:25 am

I'd have no problem recomending the Besson 983. Absolutely love mine for what I do. I use it for solos, quintet, brass band, and big band work. Haven't had the chance to try it with a concert band yet, but for the bands around here I don't think I'd have any problems.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:04 am

Bob1062 wrote:Someone told me he won his current paying orchestra on ONLY a 983

hehehehe

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:15 am

I have a Yamaha 381. That's the horn with the dependent 5th valve. I had a 983 for a while after using a 321 for about 10 years. I could never feel at home on the 983. Steve I. sold me his 381 and I haven't looked farther. The 381 or 321 are great choices. I've used mine in quintet, band, orchestra, solo and recording.

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:12 am

I have played a Besson 981 almost exclusively for several years (solos, quintet and larger brass ensembles, concert band, chamber and symphony orchestras) and I couldn't be happier with it. Intonation is spot on and after you get the knack of playing in the lower (compensating fourth valve) register, it speaks easily in all registers. If you want an all-round E flat tuba, I definitely recommend the 981/982.

I did actually try a MW 2040/5 last spring and was quite impressed with it, but it is an entirely different beast.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:10 am

finnbogi wrote:I have played a Besson 981 almost exclusively for several years (solos, quintet and larger brass ensembles, concert band, chamber and symphony orchestras) and I couldn't be happier with it. Intonation is spot on and after you get the knack of playing in the lower (compensating fourth valve) register, it speaks easily in all registers. If you want an all-round E flat tuba, I definitely recommend the 981/982.

I did actually try a MW 2040/5 last spring and was quite impressed with it, but it is an entirely different beast.

Yes, I would agree with all of that, although I no longer have a 981. Remember many tubists in the UK do everything on a Besson EEb, and I mean everything - I even played Wagner Rheinegold on mine!

The 2040/5 is a very different beast - a great light tuba, but not all purpose in my opinion.

Toobist · Post by **Toobist** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:27 pm

I haven't scanned this whole thread, but if you're not in a hurry and you have some coin....

The best E-flat I've ever played is the 5-valve (4p,1r) that Herr Walter Nirschl designed. If I had to have one tuba to play absolutely everything on, it would be that one. Never have I had such success with every range on an instrument when it comes to consistancy of tone (which can be mammoth to light and free) as well as consistancy in tuning (and for me on Eb, it's surprising).

A gorgeous horn that I wish I could afford.

joshwirt · Post by **joshwirt** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:31 pm

I am personally a big fan of the 3+1 EEb's such as the Besson 980/981/982's, the Yamaha 632 and my own Mirafone 1261. I haven't played the B&S or the LMI, but I'm sure they are quite good.

I spent several months on a 980 (belonged to the school) before I had to switch to a Yamaha 632 (the prototype, actually) and played my postgraduate recital on the Yamaha. A few months later, I came across my 1261 and fell in love with it. I haven't found a setting that this instrument doesn't excel at.....it looooooves big churches with brass quintets/ensembles! I've had nothing but compliments since using this horn....especially the organists--they really like how clear it is.

I'm not just plugging my horn because it's for sale, but because I think the Mirafone 1261 is a really good instrument. I have played mine and one other friend (who is a fellow Tubenetter) has one....and they're both really good. Much more consistent than the Besson's that I've played.

For me, the 983 is a good instrument, but a bit on the small side for me. The MW 2040/5 is a GREAT horn, but the non-comp EEb's are just a little strange for me since I've only worked on the comp horns. I haven't spent much time on the Willson, but I've always liked the sound of people playing them.

Chadtuba · Post by **Chadtuba** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:11 pm

Bob1062 wrote:
SoundMinistries wrote: Besson 983.... big band work.

Neat! How does that work (what are you playing,...)?

Our big band plays a little bit of everything from traditional stuff, Goodman, Basie, Miller, etc, to latin, funk, and art pieces. I only use the 983 on a few of the pieces that have lots of pedals in the 4th trombone part, then I set the bass bone down and pick up the 983. It works well and adds a different color and sound that most of the guys really like. Me personally, I love it as it has valves instead of a slide

RyanSchultz · Post by **RyanSchultz** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:32 pm

I'm an F guy but I've always loved Pat Sheridan's Besson.

Toobist · Post by **Toobist** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:53 pm

Bob1062 wrote:<img src="http://www.nantucketwoodworker.com/imag ... chl_eb.jpg">

Here's the Nirschl Eb's (I've never seen them before, and I found them in one of Charlie's posts! ).

The horn I played may have been an earlier model than either of these. As I recall, it had a bigger bell than the one pictured above (5-valve on the left). I'll bet this one plays well though. If someone asked for the earlier style, my guess is he'd make one to order though. Had I the funds, that would be what I'd do.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:30 pm

finnbogi wrote:I have played a Besson 981 almost exclusively for several years (solos, quintet and larger brass ensembles, concert band, chamber and symphony orchestras) and I couldn't be happier with it. Intonation is spot on and after you get the knack of playing in the lower (compensating fourth valve) register, it speaks easily in all registers. If you want an all-round E flat tuba, I definitely recommend the 981/982.

I did actually try a MW 2040/5 last spring and was quite impressed with it, but it is an entirely different beast.

ditto....
I've had my Boosey & Hawkes for 23 years.... i customized it to make it more similar to the Besson 981, by replacing the 982 style leadpipe and added delrin valve guides and cutting off the nut buster. I also had a stewart stand attached to the instrument permanently so the mouthpeice can be raised to the proper height.

ken k

joshwirt · Post by **joshwirt** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:45 pm

my favorite 'mod' that i saw a couple of UK tuba players do was to put the peg on the bottom of the EEb to make it stand up to a more comfortable height. the best one of these was a guy in Birmingham had used a Yamaha trumpet mouthpiece with a rubber stop on the end....he said his trumpet playing friends HATED it!