F tuba

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:29 pm

So Bob, what are those Eb's that your signature keeps talking about? Do you have a really tiny one (say, 0.620 bore and 13" bell)?

I've been thinking about playing the tuba part in the Bellon quintets on a tiny Eb instead of a euphonium.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:25 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I don't know ANYTHING about the Bellon quintets; indeed I have never heard the name before now.

Jean FranÃ§ois Victor Bellon (1795-1869) wrote a set of 12 quintets for brass. Instrumentation was Eb flugel, Bb cornet, horn, trombone, ophicleide. All were written around 1850, making them some of the earliest of the genre (when Bellon died, Victor Ewald was only 9 years old).

They've only recently (2000) been published by Editions BIM and are available from Robert King. The ophicleide part might fit a very small Eb/F tuba, but right now I'm using a euphonium.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:56 am

i may be able to snag a besson 983. I really like the horn....and i like the idea of an Eb.....how do they fair in orchestra playing? Does it fit the "sound"?

Also.......I'd prefer an F...because it has more common fingerings with CC....I guess I'm just lazy..haha

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:57 pm

pierso20 wrote:Also.......I'd prefer an F...because it has more common fingerings with CC....I guess I'm just lazy..haha

As far as "fingerings in common", I think that F has far more fingerings (for a given note) in common with BBb than with CC. Eb has about the same number in common with BBb--and a fair number with CC.

Either way, play the horn for awhile and you'll be fine. Fingerings don't change--just the starting note.

Although the 983 might well work in orchestra, the usual Eb tuba used for all-around orchestra use in the UK is the big-bell 981. Much will depend on the requirements of the work being performed, however.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:33 pm

Greg wrote: I should think the more common fingerings you have the more brain slips into the wrong set of fingerings you would also have.

now that makes perfect sense.

I guess i just have to play around and seeeeee what i like.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:58 pm

and we alllllll love analogies

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:00 pm

I have seen the error in my ways...(or thinking rather)....so lets get back to the original topic.....

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:14 pm

annnd.........sorry

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:35 pm

Doc wrote:
the elephant wrote:The more common fingerings the harder it is to really think clearly in the new tuba's "language" when sight reading.
13
Learn it from scratch.

No--the second or third or fourth tuba in a different key that you learn is in no wise learned from scratch. Hopefully, you did all the hard work when you learned the first one and your fingers already "know" their way through most common scales and arpeggios.

Learning a second tuba is far easier than learning the first--and it's not from scratch. At least not if you've been doing your homework.

Languages are like that--once you get the hang of learning the structure of a couple, additional ones tend to be mostly vocabulary and idiomatic expressions. You're not struggling with the notion of future perfect subjective tense and mood.

You've already learned what to look for.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:26 pm

the elephant wrote:You need to think in the new language so to speak. You need to play F tuba and not "F tuba as it relates to CC tuba" if you see what I am trying to say.

Yes, I made that mistake when learning CC, in starting to transpose fingerings from my familiar Eb - that causes pitching confusion and slows ones reading.

pierso20 wrote:i may be able to snag a besson 983. I really like the horn....and i like the idea of an Eb.....how do they fair in orchestra playing? Does it fit the "sound"?

Well, I cannot see why it should not work. My M-W 2040/5, which is similar in size to a 983, I have used for even large orchestral works with no complaints. You will not get the depth of sound of a CC in the low register, but it will work if you put enough into it. It is just a lot harder work than with a larger tuba.

Jonathan "who only this week heard a 983 for the first time, and liked its sound"

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:47 pm

I'm actually very surprised with how much I've been hearing about the cerveny horns.....and for the price it is MOST definetely worth investigating. I just am not sure if I would be able to make it out to Dillon's....it's a bit far for me.

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:39 am

I made the 20+ hr round trip to WWBW and tubadome.It was a valuable part of my tuba education(which,hopefully,is a lifelong process).Get some buddies together,see who has the best car,chip in for gas,food,and beverages.You might even be able to find a tubenetter who'll let you camp out at their place when you get there.Make it into an adventure....

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:25 pm

Doc wrote:Not to discourage anyone, but I'm going to rant a little...

If you've got enough dough to buy an F tuba, then you have enough dough to fly out there and check it out, or at least have one shipped to you for trials. Wait... you don't have enough? That's a problem. Many people don't realize that there is much more to consider than just the price of the instrument itself. They don't take into account the necessary travel expenses, shipping expenses (both ways), case, bag, mouthpiece, etc. If you aren't prepared to deal with all that, then you haven't finished preparing. All that is part of the deal. Gotta include that in the thinking process, as well as the savings plan.

Too far? PFFT! That's what airplanes are for. There are no excuses. Get a ticket and go. If you can't afford a ticket and a tuba, then keep saving.

Doc

I've seen your rants before about having the money and etc. and really, it's a bunch of bull.

I am not made of money. If I only have enough money to bet the horn, then would you suggest that I just don't get one when I need it??

I see your point, but for a 20 year old, living on my own and receiving on assistance from my jerk parents....it's not exactly easy for me to even have the money to buy a horn...so really, your argument is NOT applicable in my case.

2 reasons....

1)....saving the money till now has been a BITCH...
2)....Even if I had the extra money for a plane ticket OR to drive my car cannot take the beating to drive out there and I CANNOT take that time off from work, BECAUSE I am a 20 year old living alone..

So, while I see your point, and did the last time you made the argument, it does NOT apply to me. I am making the best effort I can, but I am not ready to forgo having a horn because or something like your reasoning.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:48 pm

I am not rushing at all. Otherwise I would have already bought a horn.

By the time I know what I want, I may have enough for everything else. And this is not a life experience thing. I KNOW that I can't make a rushed decision about the horn I want because otherwise you can....well, regret it.

BUT, I really can't save anymore than I have now. School is coming up, and tuition has been raised this year (of course), rent is going up, and if I "wait" I may end up using the horn money to pay other expenses.....or, it'll sit there with no new money being added....in this case it may be another YEAR before I get a horn, and honestly, I'm not trying to rush anything, but not wanting to wait a year?? Not exactly rushing.

now.......back to the original post...
I wanted to talk about horns in here, NOT having cases, driving or flying to where or the money involved.

I KNOW those are all parts of finding a horn and being happy bith your purchase, but it is not the intent of my post. Thanks

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:37 pm

no problem. You guy's mean well.

woof...........

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:00 pm

If all the info Brooke has given us is true concerning his financial independence from his parents,I would contend he is,indeed, an adult.Adulthood does not have an age requirement.If you're working and paying all your own bills,you qualify.A first f tuba does not have to be the perfect f tuba.There's a whole lot you can learn on any f tuba with at least 5 valves.If we wait til everything is perfect before we make a decision,we won't make many decisions.It is wise to seriously consider the advice of your elders,but it really is your decision.Look at whatever you buy from a resale standpoint as well.You probably will be selling it at some point and what you are able to resell it for will affect your future horn options.Good luck and let us know how it turns out...

Mike"on my 4th f tuba and still not totally sure"Mason

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:27 pm

basically.....I dont need YOU to explain to me how much of an adult or child I am. Only I really know the circumstances of my situation, and frankly you don't know **** about it.

Age = ONLY age......

An increase of age does NOT always indicate an increase or wisdom or life experience. And if you disagree, I will introduce to 40 year old examples of children.

Now, having said that...being 20 does NOT always indicate that someone is a child as well. I have gone through more life changing events in the past 5 years of my life than most people go through in 20 or 25 years of their life. I am not saying this to brag of what i've gone through...BUT I am saying this to show that I KNOW about working hard, and saving and having responsibility.

Maybe someday, if you're really interested, I could explain to you these things...then..MAYBE if you got off your "old and wise horse" you could open your eyes a little.

Yes......you are correct...I guess the horn thing is more of a want.....I do not NEED it for a job. But it is NOT your place to be questions the needs or wants of a stranger. In fact, in your "old and wise" age, I find the fact that you spend so much time here and send such large messages in such a negative manner quite childish. Or are you just the old man who shoos away the kids that recieve popcicles from the wife??

I am ALWAYS interested in advice. That is why I go here. And frankly, I do NO discard advice. But my CIRCUMSTANCES...which again..you have NO CLUE about, do not allow me to take a "trip" to buy a horn....I am not an "aspiring" professional. I would like an F tuba. I have a large CC horn and I WANT an F...I want to play solo's made for F tuba, and I LOVE the way F tuba's sound. And NO, I don't want to wait a year for it. AND I can settle for something that I may replace in the future, because who doesn't eventually replace horns?? Tuba players go through more istruments than any other players I know.

So what I have to say to you is, stop being a crabby person, and actually give advice, rather than complain. I've seen many of your "complaining" posts, and personally, I feel that they more childish than me wanting a horn now.

I WELCOME advice. But don't punish me for telling you that it doesn't fit my circumstances. If I tell you it doesn't fit, then be a pal and try to think of alternative advice ideas. There isn't only one answer.

Brooke "who is 20 but KNOWS what the real world entails" Pierson

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:30 pm

i am NOT asking anyoen to feel sorry for me...LIFE is hard....for everyone.

I am asking you not to judge someone intentions or circumstances.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:34 pm

one more.....I'm made multiple trips already this summer to other tuba stores.....and thus slightly exhausting some funds i needed...

So......enough bashing...lets PLEASE just talk some more about F (and possibly Eb) tubas.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:41 pm

Bob1062 wrote:jones, if you don't mind yet ANOTHER question -

how is the intonation on your 653? what are the off notes, if any?

I haven't noticed any major intonation problems. The second-space C is a bit sharp, but other than that, everything else seems solid, requiring little adjustment (that I'm aware of). As a matter of fact, I recently stopped using 1+3 for my upper (top space) G, and found it quite passable to use 1+2 for the F#, 1 for the G, 2 for the Ab and open for the A in faster passages (like the VW or the Malcom Arnold) without having to lip the notes very much.

As far as volume is concerned, this little baby sounds a lot bigger than it looks to me, but YMMV. A lot of the volume capability of any horn is directly related to the player's ability to control the tone and pitch at that volume. Yes, this horn is not a gigantic F and will eventually run into "the wall" at extremely loud volumes, but I've been able to keep up pretty well with a section of BBbs and CCs without anything but favorable comments from the conductor and sectionmates. It's far more important to me to play with a full, musical, in-tune and clean sound and be part of the actual music making that is going on around me.