A curious instrument in Hungary

[olaness]

I know this isn't stricktly a tuba question, but there are many here who knows a lot about other instruments too.

I just saw an episode of Michael Palin's new series 'New Europe' where he travels all over the new states that have sprung up in Europe after the fall of the USSR. In this, he was invited to the home of a musical family, who put on a little performance for him. They all played guitars and various relatives of that instrument, but there was one I have not heard of nor seen before. This was a very brief little clip and I was not prepared for it so my description might be a bit inaccurate, but the instrument looked from afar like a double bass, and was played pizzicato. One closeup revealed though that the strings were strung in a straight line, not arched like a double bass, and that it had frets!

I just wonder if anyone here knows what that might have been, and if they care to tell.

Purely curiosity value, by the way....

[Donn]

Mandobass? (i.e., bass mandolin)

[UDELBR]

Maybe a crwth? (An exquisite word for word games!)

[olaness]

Thanks for your tips guys, that website is great!

But it was none of those instruments, it had a body like a double bass, and the scrolls too, but with a flat fingerboard and frets...

[DCottrell]

It is a bass. There are basses in use in Eastern European bands that are fretted. Some only have three strings and are tuned a little differently, like a tambura. Some have four and are tuned in fourths like a bass viol.

[olaness]

Ok that explains it then I think...

I have never heard about these fretted basses before though so it struck me as strange.

Learned something new today thanks!

[jbaylies]

Maybe a crwth? (An exquisite word for word games!)

No vowels! *gasp*
Very exquisite indeed!

EDIT: Just found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wo ... el_letters

[Geotuba]

Maybe a crwth? (An exquisite word for word games!)

No vowels! *gasp*
Very exquisite indeed!

EDIT: Just found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wo ... el_letters

Well that wikipedia entry completely missed the fact that "crwth" (and "cwm") are not English words at all, but Welsh. And "w" is a vowel in Welsh.

[pierso20]

It is a bass. There are basses in use in Eastern European bands that are fretted. Some only have three strings and are tuned a little differently, like a tambura. Some have four and are tuned in fourths like a bass viol.

After recently getting out of Music History last year, I am surprised I remembered this, but it was probably a Viola Da Gamba, which was like a bass viola [or viol(violin with frets)] during the early stringed instrument period through the rennassiance. In other words...it is a double bass (though size actually varied) with frets...and sometimes frets didn't cover the whole finger board.

Notice how I said it was PROBABLY.... I could still be wrong, but this is my guess.

EDIT: Viol da gamba came in 3 sizes: bass, tenor, treble
If the instrument you saw was as tall as a person, then it is not what thought.

[OldsRecording]

EDIT: Viol da gamba came in 3 sizes: bass, tenor, treble
If the instrument you saw was as tall as a person, then it is not what thought.

Actually, (not to sound like a smartass ), there is a viola da gamba larger than the bass, called the violone. Some are large enough to stand up and play like a modern double bass. In fact, as late as the 1800's, a lot of German bass players used a fretted bass (essentially a large viola da gamba- that could be why most German basses are gamba-shaped rather than violin-shaped), so what you saw could have been what passes for a double bass in darkest Hungary.

[pierso20]

EDIT: Viol da gamba came in 3 sizes: bass, tenor, treble
If the instrument you saw was as tall as a person, then it is not what thought.

Actually, (not to sound like a smartass ), there is a viola da gamba larger than the bass, called the violone. Some are large enough to stand up and play like a modern double bass. In fact, as late as the 1800's, a lot of German bass players used a fretted bass (essentially a large viola da gamba- that could be why most German basses are gamba-shaped rather than violin-shaped), so what you saw could have been what passes for a double bass in darkest Hungary.[/quote

you don't sound like a smart ***

When I edited my post, it was after I consulted my Music History book, and it only listed three...but knowing how instruments tend to have many different sizes, it sounds like you may be correct.

[Donn]

(essentially a large viola da gamba- that could be why most German basses are gamba-shaped rather than violin-shaped)

I understand the double bass to be a member of the viol family, unlike the violoncello et al., so we're just talking about details. Note the sloped shoulders.

[UDELBR]

Maybe a crwth? (An exquisite word for word games!)

No vowels! *gasp*
Very exquisite indeed!

EDIT: Just found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wo ... el_letters

Well that wikipedia entry completely missed the fact that "crwth" (and "cwm") are not English words at all, but Welsh. And "w" is a vowel in Welsh.

"Crwth" is good enough for the Oxford English Dictionary, so that's plenty close for me.

[olaness]

Thanks for all the replies, quite enlightening actually.

In response to the last question, 'w' is a vowel in welsh, replacing the sound that is 'oo' in english. Some words show this very well, such as 'pwl' = 'pool'. As far as I'm aware there were no word for pool in welsh so when they needed one they nicked the english word but altered the spelling to suit their language.

[OldsRecording]

EDIT: Viol da gamba came in 3 sizes: bass, tenor, treble
If the instrument you saw was as tall as a person, then it is not what thought.

Actually, (not to sound like a smartass ), there is a viola da gamba larger than the bass, called the violone. Some are large enough to stand up and play like a modern double bass. In fact, as late as the 1800's, a lot of German bass players used a fretted bass (essentially a large viola da gamba- that could be why most German basses are gamba-shaped rather than violin-shaped), so what you saw could have been what passes for a double bass in darkest Hungary.[/quote

you don't sound like a smart ***

When I edited my post, it was after I consulted my Music History book, and it only listed three...but knowing how instruments tend to have many different sizes, it sounds like you may be correct.

Thanks for the vote of confidence . What that particular book might have been refering to is that the treble, tenor and bass were usually used together in a consort. There were actually about 7 or 8 different varieties of viol used for various purposes.

This might be enlightening:
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1187/Mu ... shist.html