Anybody had experience with a custom made 4th slide?

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:19 am

Have any of you played on a 4 valve tuba with a custom long pull on the 4th slide? If so, please share your experience.

Since adding a 5th valve is about $1,500, I'm considering having a custom 4th valve slide constructed on my Miraphone 186 CC 4U instead. I want it to be long enough to tune all of the low notes and make low C#/Db attainable.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:14 pm

The issue with the 186, as you probably well know, is that the 4th valve tubing is tucked inside the inner bows, so you have a really short 4th valve slide in order for it to be removable. It would involve significant replumbing to get a long 4th valve slide, because it may have to be run externally in order for it to have a long enough pull.

My initial reaction is why bother, but since you're talking about a CC and not a BBb, yes, that low Db can be usable in context.

But if you're really going to use that note a lot, it might be worth a safari to look at other instruments as well.

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:18 am

This is not exactly a 186, but it is related to your question. I used third-valve tubing from a YBB-201, the older model.

http://www.galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/frugalhorn.html

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:38 am

iiipopes wrote:The issue with the 186, as you probably well know, is that the 4th valve tubing is tucked inside the inner bows, ....

That's not exactly correct on a relatively modern 186 CC, what you are describing is a BBb 186 issue. 186 CCs have a fairly long 4th valve slide on the back.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:18 pm

cjk wrote:
iiipopes wrote:The issue with the 186, as you probably well know, is that the 4th valve tubing is tucked inside the inner bows, ....
That's not exactly correct on a relatively modern 186 CC, what you are describing is a BBb 186 issue. 186 CCs have a fairly long 4th valve slide on the back.

Since the ones I played would have a few years on them at this point, I am pleased to stand corrected. I'm just glad my BBb doesn't need any 4th valve pulling for all of the reasonable literature that I play in university community band. It's 4th valve slide legs are actually no longer than my second valve slide legs.

Ed Vinson · Post by **Ed Vinson** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:03 am

I had Baer make a new 4th slide for my PT6P. I can play my low F 1 and 4 with the slide out about 6 inches. The slide is about 9 inches long. I posted some pics of this mod a while back. He's been doing this to a lot of PT6Ps lately.

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:05 pm

I don't know. All I've heard is that it has the bell garland and a slightly smaller leadpipe.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:52 am

Eric B wrote:I don't know. All I've heard is that is has the bell garland and a slightly smaller leadpipe.

Which one has the slightly smaller leadpipe?

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:05 am

That was a clear as mud wasn't it. I play tested a 1291. I have never seen the New Yorker 1292 in person. I've read the only difference between the 1291 and 1292 is the 1292 has the addition of bell garland and it has a slightly smaller lead pipe.

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:40 am

Returning to the original question, here is another example of a long slide. Notice that this modified 36J from 1936 has fifth and sixth valves set up for the left hand, with a long, trombone-like slide on one of them. The tubist is Vincent Fiorino; the other guy is Vincent Lopez. Rick Denney tells us that the instrument was built for a wheelchair-bound tubist and appeared in the 1936 Conn catalog.

Eric B · Post by **Eric B** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:36 am

A professional tubist (major symphony & major college) tried this with his student this week. His student plays a 186. He switched the 4th & 3rd valve slides.

I tried that myself. Here's what I found.

I was able to play bottom space Ab with 23 in tune with the 3rd slide pushed all of the way in with some slight lipping up. I was able to play an Eb just below the staff in tune with a slight pull. With the 4th slide pulled as as far as possible, a tuned low D was possible.

So here is his theory. Using a longer 4th slide in place of the 3rd and with the standard 4th slide where it belongs, and by pulling all of the slides as far as possible, a low Db should be possible.