Vaughan or Gregson Concerto ????

Calinours89 · Post by **Calinours89** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:26 pm

So witch concerto is the best for you...... The Vaughan tuba concerto or the Gregson tUba concerto???????

Jarrad-Bittner · Post by **Jarrad-Bittner** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:39 pm

Personally, I am not a huge fan of either concerto. DO NOT GET ME WRONG. these are the mainstay of tuba rep. and both pieces have moments that are musically outstanding, and every tuba player should perform and study BOTH. I just feel that there have been other concertos written that have more to offer to the performer and listeners.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:02 pm

Ralph Vaughan Williams or Roger Vaughan?

Rommel72 · Post by **Rommel72** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:21 pm

I prefer the Gregson Concerto. I know that the RVW is a very popular concerto (it seems to be the only concerto ever played when someone has a chance to solo with an orchestra), the piece has been done to death. We seem to continue beating a dead horse. I have a lot of respect for the piece and what it has done for the tuba, but there are a number of other great tuba concertos that deserve some attention. I have not played the Gregson in a number of years, simply because there are several other concertos that I prefer to perform, but have not gotten around to it yet. I am sure this post will piss someone off, so FLAME ON!

Rommel

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:27 pm

They are both good show works for the tuba and I enjoy playing either. However, as the Vaughan Williams was the first, it is something very special.

Incidentally it is "which concerto", not "witch concerto" - the latter would be a concerto for an old lady casting spells!

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:35 pm

Rommel72 wrote:I know that the RVW is a very popular concerto (it seems to be the only concerto ever played when someone has a chance to solo with an orchestra), the piece has been done to death.

It may seem "done to death" to tuba players, because it is the one that we are most likely to get to play, but it is still little known by the general public - so much less "done to death" than for example the Bruch Violin Concerto No.1

When I played the RVW earlier this year one of the violins came up to me afterwards and said "I never knew a tuba could sound like that" - so any exposure of the tuba as a solo instrument is welcome. Even other musicians, are mostly not aware of the tuba's capabilities and lyrical potential.

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:00 pm

Bob1062 wrote:I've never played the Gregson, but I like bass tubas and the RVW was written for one so I choose that one.

Unless I am very mistaken, so was the Gregson concerto.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:04 pm

finnbogi wrote:
Bob1062 wrote:Well....

I've never played the Gregson, but I like bass tubas and the RVW was written for one so I choose that one.
Unless I am very mistaken, so was the Gregson concerto.

The Gregson was written for John Fletcher, so it was written for an Eb, while the Vaughan Williams was written for F tuba

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:14 pm

CC: Gregson
F: Vaughan Williams

Of course, both are completely playable on the opposite horns.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:22 pm

tubashaman wrote:Neptune, are you sure the Vaughan Williams was done for a F tuba

F tuba which was the norm for orchestral use in the UK until John Fletcher came along playing an Eb.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:28 pm

Besson983 wrote:Let the debate begin! VW, composed for Eb or F?

It's composed for bass tuba.

Seriously, though, I was told it was performed on a Besson F. Even if it wasn't, does it REALLY matter what it's performed on?

Ralph

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:32 pm

I'm studying/working on the Gregson right now....very fun little piece.

I've done a bit of the Williams concerto, but not in length yet since I didn't have my bass tuba at the time.

I like both of these piece, and they both have their moments. Though, they are quite different enough for me to enjoy them in separately distinct ways.

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:43 pm

Concerto movement(s) frequently appear on orchestral audition rep lists.

Every so often, a movement from the Vaughan Williams will be specified.

What orchestral auditions have called for a movement from a specific tuba concerto other than the VW? Which concerto and which movement(s) were specified?

KevinMadden · Post by **KevinMadden** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:16 am

Both.

I find that they're both bass tuba pieces, although both can certainly be played on any instrument if you've got the chops. I would not want to do the VW on a Contra, certainly not if you're familiar with and have access to a bass.
The Gregson is a harder pick. I was once told that compring contras to basses is kinda like comparing Mack Trucks and Porches, the problem with the Gregson is that it has alot of big Mack Truck moments (opening theme in 1st movement, some of the runs down low in the 3rd), but at the same time alot of Porsche moments in it too (the 2nd movment as a whole, the 6/8 sections of the 3rd) so for me it was really a question of improving my low/loud on F or improving my high/delicate on C, I chose the former.

BTW: (PLUG) I'll be performing the Gregson later today in a recital at Ithaca College!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:02 am

tubashaman wrote:Neptune, are you sure the Vaughan Williams was done for a F tuba

Remember the F tuba didnt have a big impact till the 70s, and it was in england, and I believe Phillip Caitlinet played on an Eb tuba

Come on, guys, you should know this.

The standard orchestral instrument in British orchestras from the late 19th century until the 1960's was the Barlow F, a small bass tuba that was uncompensated with five valves in a 3+2 configuration. Harry Barlow set that standard in the 1890's or thereabouts. Catelinet played the premiere on a compensated Besson F tuba, in the 3+1 configuration, similar to the instrument used by Jacobs when he recorded it.

Fletcher was the first major British orchestral tuba player to break the F-tuba dominance in favor of the Eb, primarily because Besson no longer made them and he could not lay hands on a good one.

Rick "who thinks Bevan's book really ought to be required reading for tuba players" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:16 am

I prefer the Gregson, simply because it's definitely a work for a brass instrument. It has the heroic quality, and some moments where the tuba player can absolutely own the room. Think Strauss Horn Concerto.

Despite that Vaughan Williams is one of my favorite composers, the tuba concerto isn't my favorite. Personally, I think it would sound just the same, or even better, if played on a bassoon. It just doesn't have that heroic brass quality.

The tuba solo (ironically in light of my above statement, in a duet with the usually unheard bassoon) in the third movement of the Vaughan Williams 4th Symphony is a better demonstrate of RVW's abilities with the instrument. Or the solo lick in the 2nd Symphony.

But given that RVW never heard any other instrument than a Barlow F, he might not have really realized what could be done with a tuba. He certainly heard big tuba playing from German performers for works like Wagner, and he certainly wrote plenty of heroic brass music for his big works, but he didn't take advantage of that when it came time for the Concerto.

Rick "thinking the Gregson is underrated" Denney

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:21 am

BBbDave wrote:
Rick Denney wrote: This may be a reason more tuba players don't read the Bevan book.

http://www.amazon.com/Tuba-Family-Cliff ... 0684154773

That is the original addition. This is the one to get
http://www.berliozhistoricalbrass.org/tuba_family.htm

Geotuba · Post by **Geotuba** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:10 pm

BBbDave wrote:
Rick Denney wrote: This may be a reason more tuba players don't read the Bevan book.

http://www.amazon.com/Tuba-Family-Cliff ... 0684154773
That is the original addition. This is the one to get
http://www.berliozhistoricalbrass.org/tuba_family.htm

Hmm - maybe I should consider selling my first edition that Cliff Bevan gave [1] me in 1978 when he was our low brass tutor in the Surrey Youth Wind Orchestra.

[1] "gave" as in "handed to in exchange for cash"

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:23 pm

BBbDave wrote:This may be a reason more tuba players don't read the Bevan book.

http://www.amazon.com/Tuba-Family-Cliff ... 0684154773

Anyone willing to pay me $1750 for my first edition of Bevan's book may contact me by PM. At that price, I'm in the market. I'll even dig around and find where I put it.

Plus, I also have the current edition, for which I paid $60.

Rick "who bought the first edition in 1986 at Half-Price Books in Austin, Texas for, well, half price" Denney

numbnutstubist · Post by **numbnutstubist** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:18 am

I think one way to look at it is that it depends on what you want your audience to get out of the performance. If you want to give your audience a more historical perspective about the roots of the Tuba as a serious solo instrument, then go with the Vaughan Williams. If you want your audience to walk away humming a really great tune (And probably feeling more than a little pumped up by the Indiana Jones-like harmonies in the third movement), you should play the Gregson. That makes me lean towards the Gregson because I think that the audience is more likely to get excited about the Tuba as a solo instrument and want to hear more of it after hearing a piece that can strike the kind of chords that the Gregson can Strike.

BUT, when it comes right down to it.... Both are great pieces, both are solid choices. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.