Good Valve work in the southern illinois area?

[adam0408]

I need someone to work on my valves. One and three stick all the time and no amount of cleaning really helps anymore. There is a "gritty" sensation when turning the valves (except for #4) in the casings, even when freshly oiled.

I would like to know a shop that people here are familiar with and have the peace of mind that they are going to do good quality work.

I am located in Carbondale, IL. I would much prefer not have to go to Chicago, as it is a six hour drive (at least).

St. Louis or surrounding area would be acceptable.

I don't really care how much I have to spend, I just want to know the job is done right. That having been said, how much is this likely to cost?

[eupher61]

First off, have you taken the valves out and cleaned valves AND casings well? Flush the whole horn, too. A garden hose is adequate.
OH, rotors or pistons? Pistons, simple, just don' lose the springs!

Rotors are easy to disassemble, don't be afraid of it. I don't have time to find links, but there are plenty of sites with rotor work information. I'm think Jeffrey Funderburk's is one, but don't quote me. Someone will know. Search the archives here.

[Roger Lewis]

Professor Mickey Moore at University of Illinois, Champagne-Urbana (memoore - at - uiuc - dot - edu). There is a technician in town that he uses who does some really great work. Perhaps that's a little closer for you.

Peace.
Roger

[Andy Rummel]

Good morning!

The repair technician that Mickey uses (and subsequently most other folks in downstate Illinois) is named Carl Thacker. He is located in Bloomington and is a genius when it comes to horn repair. Carl and his son have a very active shop in Bloomington, and more information can be found here:

http://www.carlsproband.com

I trust him with all of my horns and wholeheartedly recommend his work.

Andy Rummel

[Jeffrey Hicks]

Jeez if you are in Carbondale drive over to Newburgh Indiana and see Dan Schultz aka "Tubatinker". He does great work.

[Dan Schultz]

Jeez if you are in Carbondale drive over to Newburgh Indiana and see Dan Schultz aka "Tubatinker". He does great work.

Thanks for your confidence, Jeff.

To the original poster.... unless there has been some damage to your valves (whether they be rotors or pistons)... you probably don't need anything further than a good cleaning. It doesn't take much gunk to slow things down.

The first thing you need to do is COMPLETELY clean your horn to remove any and all lubrication residues and dirt. Once the horn is squeaky-clean, you can start over with new lubricants. Most often when troubles arise, it's more a result of mixing different lubricants than anything.

[sungfw]

Jeez if you are in The first thing you need to do is COMPLETELY clean your horn to remove any and all lubrication residues and dirt.

Dan,

I've had several people suggest cleaning valves and valve casings with brake cleaner. Good idea? Bad idea? What's your take?

Thanks.

[a2ba4u]

For someone in southern IL, I would recommend heading to see Bill Meyers at Saint Louis Woodwind and Brass over in Florissant, MO.

When I lived in IL, Bill was the go-to guy for all of my horn work. He is very reasonably priced (didn't quite know how reasonably until I had to have some routine work done recently and about collapsed after reading the bill) and can do a lot of work same-day if you call ahead and make an appointment with him. I trust him totally to do great work, and I give him my highest recommendation.

Google for address/phone info.

Kyle

[Dan Schultz]

Jeez if you are in The first thing you need to do is COMPLETELY clean your horn to remove any and all lubrication residues and dirt.

Dan,

I've had several people suggest cleaning valves and valve casings with brake cleaner. Good idea? Bad idea? What's your take?

Thanks.

I've never tried it on musical instruments. It seem to work pretty good on brake parts and greasy automotive stuff, though. I think it's probably pretty extreme to recommend across the board for musical instruments. If I did try it I would be quite careful to keep it off lacquered finishes and plastic parts.

I haven't seen anything oily that Dawn and a toothbrush wouldn't take off.

[eupher61]

white cider vinegar works well for removing corrosion, lime/calcium deposits (yeah, about the same thing), it's cheap and harmless.

Soak the valves in it for a while, then attack with an old toothbrush...or one from the significant other you wish to lose.

[adam0408]

Thanks for all the replies and the advice. My horn, for those of you who may be curious, is a Miraphone 1291 CC. Pistons. Apparently tight valves can become an issue on these horns

As far as cleaning goes, I have cleaned the valves out quite a few times very well. I work them over with dish soap first and scrub with a toothbrush. Then I move on to rubbing alcohol to make sure most if not all of the oil is gone. I have done this process probably three or four times since my valves really started to stick and it hasn't really helped at all any of those times. I oil the pistons and it just goes back to the way it was.

Granted, my horn probably is in dire need of a professional cleaning, but I have attacked it with several different substances including vinegar (soaking for a while in the solution) with very little success.

Like I said, there is a physical gritty feeling when turning the valve in the casing. The valves are sometimes difficult to put back in once I am done oiling. It takes some "shimmying" to get them in sometimes.

Honestly, I have no idea what would have caused this. I used to play flat fingered sometimes, so there is a chance something is bent or warped, but this just doesn't seem logical given the behavior of the valves.

The valves on my horn were always tight, but I never thought tight valves could lead to such horrendous sticking problems, and if they do, I want my valves to be less tight.

Tucker, although a great tuba player and fantastic teacher, isn't very good at finding repair shops. (and he hates to be called Andy)

[adam0408]

Greg"SIUC Alumni"Allen

Are you related to Cory Allen by any chance?

[Lee Stofer]

If the Mirafone CC were mine, I lived in Carbondale and it needed servicing like this, where cleaning it hasn't helped, I'd take it to Carl Thacker. He is one of the very tops in the instrument repair/restoration business.

My experience with a Mirafone like this tells me that it has very tightly-fit valves. That is a very good thing, unless/until calcification moves in. Cleaning with a de-limer/de-scaler, whether done professionally with sulfamic acid or at home with white vinegar, will help remove these deposits.

Simple Green, despite its use in some very large shops across the country, is a bad idea for brass, as Simple Green does bad things to brass long-term. Yes, it is cheap, and some big shops use it because they don't care whether their rental horns last more than three years. They are looking at profitability, particularly short-term. And, if your horn doesn't last as long, they can sell you a new one sooner.

I sense that this instrument has more going on than just needing a cleaning. There may be alignment and tension issues, providing just enough distortion of the valve casings to make the owner miserable. The valves may need light lapping with a fine compound, also. If you can get in to see him, Carl can correctly diagnose what your instrument needs and repair it so that it stays repaired. Others may be able to, also, I just happened to be acquainted with Carl and have seen him at work.

[fifthnotules]

I once owned a 1291 CC. I had a similar problem with a valve sticking periodically, regardless of how well lubricated it may have been. When I took it to the shop to get it checked out, the repairman discovered that there was a manufacture defect with one of the ports. It was a problem that was basically impossible to fix, or so I was told. My warranty was still good, and the horn was replaced. (Thanks again, Roger!)

I'm sure this is not a common problem, but I would say that you should have a repairman look down there and check just to make sure there is not a serious problem.