Ophicleide players

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:24 pm

I'm just curious, as I'm new to Tubenet...

Who here plays or has played ophicleide, and what did/do you play?

J.c.S.

Tim Olt · Post by **Tim Olt** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:01 am

Greetings,

For my masters lecture recital I played various excerpts on their original instruments with a trombone section and then again on our modern equipment. This included some Berlioz on ophecliede, Verdi on cimbasso, and Tchiakovsky on an 1896 handmade Wolfstein Sanders CC tuba. The ophecliede was on loan from Sam Gnagey. Very interesting to perform on that instrument. I've thought about getting one of my own ever since.

Tim

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:55 am

Check out the Doug Yeo website. He has a oph quartet video on YouTube. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI&NR=1

Also check out USA Civil War reinactment bands, as they sometimes have players, as historically this was a period of overlap, and they were used interchangably with bass Eb sax horns, both TARV and pistion variants, as they developed into upright valve tubas.

And here's a link to a great player:

http://www.ophicleide.com

There once was a player named Clyde
Who just couldn't master a slide
But he could buzz quite well
And pitch he could tell
So he up and acquired an ophicleide!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:39 pm

I played an 11-keyed unmarked C ophicleide, which was owned by the Streitwieser Foundation, that I made playable again. It is now with the rest of the collection in Austria.

I performed by myself, and also with Jay Krush of the Chestnut Brass Co. on things like Symphonie Fantastique with the Delaware Symphony.

Kenton · Post by **Kenton** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:08 am

iiipopes wrote: Also check out USA Civil War reinactment bands

http://indianabrassband.com/
(I'm playing a Courtois)

Tom Waid · Post by **Tom Waid** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:23 am

Kenton wrote:
iiipopes wrote: Also check out USA Civil War reinactment bands
http://indianabrassband.com/
(I'm playing a Courtois)

Excellent web site!!

tuba kitchen · Post by **tuba kitchen** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:41 pm

check out these guys:

erhard schwartz www.ophicleide.de

nick byrne www.ophicleide.com

douglas yeo www.yeodoug.com

and all together in berlin on youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:04 am

Wow! That's a fascinating trio! I think I can pause after hearing it 12 times in a row!

For M. Olt: How did you think the ophicleide compared for the works you side-by-sided. I definitely think the 'cleide got a bum rap by being invented too close to the valves invention. It's just a different instrument, and isn't replaced easily.

Last year, I played the Verdi Requiem under Robert Page. It was awesome. I had to discuss the option of the ophicleide with the maestro, but the real challange was convicing the brass section; I wish I had photographed the faces I got after I opened the case and sat down! Happily, they embraced it in short order.

The ophicleide had a certain ferocity, I felt, but it made me understand better why Verdi preferred it to the Tuba - it is a blending instrument, not a supportive one.

Now if the Opera would just pick up an opera with an ophicleide part!

Oh, and I forget who said it; how did the Symph Fantastic go with Delaware Symph?

J.c.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:58 am

J.c. Sherman wrote:how did the Symph Fantastic go with Delaware Symph?

Actually, I thought rather well. Jay and I had played enough 'cleide that between alternate fingerings and embouchure, intonation was not such a big issue, and the balance between modern instruments and the ophicleides was amazingly pretty good. You have experienced how other players come around once they actually hear an ophicleide.

The music director took them for the 'Dies Irae' sound, but they made the whole thing rather easy to play; Berlioz wrote such characteristic parts for them.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:59 pm

J.c. Sherman wrote:Now if the Opera would just pick up an opera with an ophicleide part!

A lot of modern operas have a cimbasso in the brass section performing a similar role.

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:27 pm

Indeed, I perform more often on Cimbasso than Tuba these days with the Opera (Opera Cleveland). This season, we open with La Bohem, and that's Cimbasso. Luckily, though, we also have Hansel and Grettle (sp?) so I get to bring in the Tuba finally!

Incidentally, I have a self made axe - it's an F/D/BBb/-Ab slide contra of my own design. I used to use a 3 valve CC/BBb, but it's so much easier to tune and blend with the slide. But an ophiceide part would be a whole new negotiation, and I doubt I'd be prone to bring in the cimbasso to replace it; maybe Euph...

J.c.S.

Tim Olt · Post by **Tim Olt** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:18 pm

Greetings,

I agree the 'cleide got a bum rap. It definitely shed a new light on my approach to Berlioz. It became obvious that he was using it more as a color, not as a bass voice. It blends and modifies the trombone sound. Now when I play Berlioz I use my F and cut the dynamics by half or more to get inside the trombone sound. I will say the one definite difference is the weakness/strengths of various pitches. It is pretty drastic, and makes complete sense why he would write to parts in unison in Symphonie Fantastique. If played on two 'cleides pitched in different keys, they will hopefully make up for weak notes on each other.

All that being said, about my favorite recording of Symphonie Fantastique is the Romantic/Revolutionary group with John Eliot Gardner conducting. The Dies Irae is very creepy and demonic on period instruments.

Hope I answered your question in all my ramblings.

Tim

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:54 am

Absolutely!

One thing I've noticed. I used to play a Protin et Freres Ophicleide, and it was a real dog. Definitely some weak notes. Now with my Guichard, it's a whole new world. Yes, some notes are "weaker" than others, but not nearly as bad as the other axe. I've also tried a couple other 'cleides, and it seams the quality of the horn makes a HUGE difference, perhaps more than any instrument I've ever played. I even played (and restored) a VERY early Thomas Key, and it was astounding!

Plus, what a difference the 10th key (G#) makes! I hate that note on a 9-key!

J.c.S.

Phil Dawson · Post by **Phil Dawson** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:30 am

You might check out Roger Bobo's blog. One of his more recent articles concerns the ophicleide and a gentleman who plays one.
Good luck, Phil

Jeff Miller · Post by **Jeff Miller** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:12 am

I play on a 9 key C ophicleide by Colmar of Montpelier. It probably dates from 1830 - 1850. It still has the (more or less) original case and mouthpiece.

The mouthpiece is substantially different to any other low brass mouthpiece I've seen - certainly very unlike a trombone or tuba mouthpiece. It's much more like an oversized french horn mp, and much smaller than my smallest bass trombone mouthpiece.

I don't really mind the 9 key thing - the instrument makes a good sound and works well/is in great shape, so I'm content with that! At any rate, I personally think an ophicleide should sound somewhat uneven, as that's its nature. I think of it more like a bassoon than a euphonium.

Jeff Miller

J.c. Sherman · Post by **J.c. Sherman** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:06 am

Man, 1830 is an old Ophicleide! Never heard of Colmar - got a picture?

Obviously, you have to know 9-key technique regardless, as you can't really move your fingers from the G to the G# chromatically. But on the last ophicleide I used, G# was a monstrous note. F# was great, though...

I agree with the uneven timbre statement, it is part of it's charm. Unstable is what it shouldn't be. Leave that to Serpents (well, some have that under controll too!).

J.c.S.

Jeff Miller · Post by **Jeff Miller** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:15 am

J.c. Sherman wrote:Man, 1830 is an old Ophicleide! Never heard of Colmar - got a picture?

Obviously, you have to know 9-key technique regardless, as you can't really move your fingers from the G to the G# chromatically. But on the last ophicleide I used, G# was a monstrous note. F# was great, though...

I agree with the uneven timbre statement, it is part of it's charm. Unstable is what it shouldn't be. Leave that to Serpents (well, some have that under controll too!).

J.c.S.

The G# and F# can both seem temperamental, but I think it's largely conceptual - after spending a few minutes playing in the key of Ab, the note doesn't seem to be a problem. When playing the notes in proximity to each other (such as in a trill or G#-A cadence) I try to use fingerings that will maximise the color differences as much as possible, to reinforce the difference in pitch.