Mouthpieces and the Holy Grail

[Tubaryan12]

You can't go home again....
What was once old is now new...

Sometime last year, that grumpy old man Bloke wrote a post about trying old mouthpieces from your past. Well, I didn't have to go that far back.

I took 5 mouthpieces to practice today. Got there early so that I could listen in a live room. Warmed them all up and played a song or 2 on each during practice. The clear winner (and I mean not even close) was a mouthpiece I had cast aside for something I thought would be better. Yamaha Jim Self. Easiest to play, sound was as good as ever (though I can't get as loud as I could with a few of the "non winners"). Notes slotted better. Attacks were much cleaner. Didn't have to shift the lip for low notes. I am content.......for now.

[SplatterTone]

Yamaha Jim Self.

I resemble that remark.
(but I still keep the 66D4 handy for days when my face doesn't want to cooperate)

[iiipopes]

Hey, Urbie -- you're not alone. I have a band director/bass trombonist friend who did exactly the same thing, a Wick 3, for his MW11. He gets a great tone out of it.

Bach is notorious for not making their mouthpieces to "spec." Some of this has to do with historically using manual cutters where they sharpened the cutters instead of replacing them when worn. But you're right. Depending on when it was made, and whether it was at the beginning or end of a run, it could be a size or two larger or smaller than "spec." My Bach 18 is, measured and compared with my Wick 1, 1.28 id cup instead of spec 1.26, with a flatish narrow rim to boot, a perfect match for my Wick 1. I tried a Bach 24AW once that was at least 1.26 instead of its published spec, but retaining the really wide rim. Another guy I play with has the Blessing 18 version, and it is the 1.26 with a moderate rim. My Kelly 18 is a perfect match in all specs and contours to my Bach 18, so transition to playing outdoors is not an issue.

Go figure.

[kegmcnabb]

I used an 18 in high school and college but found it stuffy when I used it on my Marzan so I switch to a Conn-Helleberg. Actually I use my Kellyberg 90% of the time now.

I still use the 18 (or a Kelly 18 ) on my '47 King sousie!

Hooray...4 valves! Finally.

[Albertibass]

When i got my first tuba, my St Petersburg, it had a smaller lead pipe, so the moutpiece that came with with it was a Mirafone C9. i loved that mouthpiece. a few months ago i got my 2145 and that came with the 24AW. i wanted to change, because i didnt like the sound i heard compared to my old mouthpiece which didnt fit in my new tuba. i know what it comes down to, is that i need to become less dependent on the mouthpiece, but i until then i wanted something i liked. i talked to my teacher Alex, and he told me that what you hear under the bell is diferent than what the audience hears. so we lined up a series of mouthpeices that i was looking at (some perantuccis, and some others). we did this at teh shop my teacher works at Baltimore brass. i played through some etudes and each mouthpiece was assigned a number. i didnt look at it, and niether did alex. to prevent biased desicion. we narrowed it down to the Laskey 28c, which sounded best to Alex. turnes out it is the same mouthpiece he plays on. but yeah i really like this mouthpiece, and for the first time in a while i havent gone mouthpiece shopoing every few months (nor to i intend to for a long while). But that is the story of me and my mouthpiece.

[iiipopes]

Hey tubahippie: I agree. I only use a Kelly 18 outdoors, only because I can't stand the temperature extremes I play in: from cold for the Salvation Army @ Christmas to searing Independance day heat. I agree that for outdoors, I don't think there is a better mouthpiece than an 18 for projection and tone.

[Tubaryan12]

Over the last 2 years or so, I have bought and sold a few mouthpieces. I tried mouthpieces that ranged in I.D. from 31.00mm all the way up to 33.68mm. They had throats from 7.60mm to 8.40mm. I tried both funnels, cups, and the so called funnel/cups.

In that period of time I've learned a few things about myself and my playing. The most important thing that I found is that, as I believe bloke stated, "you sound like you no matter what mouthpiece you play". I finally figured this was true because at the end of every rehearsal, I love the way the horn sounds, and it didn't matter which mouthpiece I was playing at the time. The only difference was how easy it was to get the mouthpiece to produce the note. Chuck Jackson made a post a few weeks ago with a video of a one man band and made a statement about music being fun. That's the thing that got lost in the never ending search for the Holy Grail. It became too much like work. It was no longer fun.

I decided to go back to something that I used when playing was always fun. Today I bought a Faxx 18. It feels just like the Blessing 18 I played on a trial horn back in the fall. Are the notes as mellow as some of the large throat mouthpieces I played? No, but every note I played tonight seemed to jump out of the horn with ease. I'm sure by the end of practice tomorrow night I will sound like myself again and it will be fun again as well.

[The Jackson]

Hi, I'm Jackson and I'm a Mouthpiece Geek.


When I started playing at age 12, I just slapped on the school's 24AW and used that for that year and most of the next. I didn't know anything else was out there, so I just used that and all was well. I guess I was just stumbling around the internet one day when I found the Conn Helleberg, saw all the awesome reviews and bought it. Since then, I haven't been able to play well on anything smaller than that. When I played on an intern's PT-48, I know my true calling was for brass bucket funnel pieces. My CH H2 is that and a bag of potato chips.

As per the poll, I have played an 18 and, to be perfectly honest, it didn't feel any different from a 24AW (Which now is "Ehh..." at best).

[Dan Schultz]

Folks tend to scoff at the Bach mouthpieces. I'm proud to say that I still have a 'fleet' of them... #7, #12, and #18 mouthpieces reside in my MP bag along with a Mirafone TU-33, a Conn Helleberg, and a Kelly 18. I've played just about every mouthpiece one can imagine and just keep coming back to the 'basics'.

[Tubaryan12]

Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces are by far my favorite of all I tried during this year and a half (at least) jouney. I owned a H2, N4 Tommy Johnson, T.E. Rose, and a Jim Self (favorite overall sound of all the ones I tried). If Marcinkiewicz made a mouthpiece that had a 31.90 - 32.30 mm I.D. I would have bought one instead of the Faxx.

[bearphonium]

My first stint on the tuba (one term, after college graduation, after 5 years on the french horn) I used a Bach 18. When I started my second stint on the tuba, I bought a Bach 18, and bought a Kelly 18 to use outdoors with the sousaphone. The horn I bought came with a Yamaha Canadian Brass mpc, and I go back and forth between the 18 and the Yamaha, depending on the situation.

Ally"who thinks mouthpiece acqusition syndrome is nearly as bad as tuba acquisition syndrome, and could easily suffer from both"House

[TubaSteve]

It's funny that this post is still running strong, but I guess that we all fall into the pit from time to time. Last year I replaced my ConnHelleburg 7b after my original from way back in high school (almost 30 years ago), was starting to peel on the face of the rim. I was in love with it all over again. (I still like my Bach 18 for sousaphone) Then a month ago over on the bay, I saw a ConnHelleburg 120s brand new for $30 so I took it. When I sat down side by side with the two, I could not believe the difference. They look so close that I could hardly tell them apart, but they blow so differently. Like I had expected, the 120s was harder to go high and easier to go low on, but what I didn't expect was the difference in sound. It was much easier to flow air through the 120, and F below the staff was much more solid. I thought that maybe it was just in my head, but I then had my 9 year old son help me. He very quickly picked up that the 120 had a more full sound. Maybe I will go back to sound the same with the 120, but I sure like being more secure with the basement notes.
Steve

[tubacrow]

I used it for the first year and a half of my undergraduate degree.

[mammoth2ba]

I tried a grail as a mouthpiece, but the rim was too sharp.

You can get that rim modified, Chuck!

My "current favorite" mouthpiece is a pre-Mt. Vernon (1953) Bach 7. A little different than the later models. I do own a Euro-shank Melton 18 (similar to Bach?), which I just keep around in case some visitor brings a large shank receiver tuba.

[Kevin Hendrick]

If Marcinkiewicz made a mouthpiece that had a 31.90 - 32.30 mm I.D. I would have bought one instead of the Faxx.

They do make two that are just outside your specified range -- the ST-3 and ST4 (32.44 mm I.D.). I bought an ST-4 several years ago -- nice mouthpiece, very face-friendly (well-rounded rim). I still use it from time to time, and will probably use it more once I have the rim & cup gold-plated to eliminate the "contact dermatitis" problem from the silver plate.

[Tubaryan12]

If Marcinkiewicz made a mouthpiece that had a 31.90 - 32.30 mm I.D. I would have bought one instead of the Faxx.

They do make two that are just outside your specified range -- the ST-3 and ST4 (32.44 mm I.D.). I bought an ST-4 several years ago -- nice mouthpiece, very face-friendly (well-rounded rim). I still use it from time to time, and will probably use it more once I have the rim & cup gold-plated to eliminate the "contact dermatitis" problem from the silver plate.

I saw those, but I want to stay with the same rim contour and as close to the 32.10mm I.D. as I can get if I'm ever going to experiment again. I just like the secure feeling I get when I play on that size. If you could, could you shoot me a pic of the rim and pm it too me?

[Tubaryan12]

I have found my Holy Grail! In fact, I found 3 mouthpieces that I could be satisfied with for a long time. They are:

Perantucci 7
Perantucci 12
Giardinelli 18

Each of these mouthpieces feel like the Faxx 18, (all 3 have a I.D. of between 32.00 - 32.10 mm) but blow and sound like the Marcinkiewicz Jim Self. It is exactly what I've been searching for. The Giardinelli has the sound with the least amount of "edge" to it, the Perantucci 12 has the most. I may keep the Faxx 18 just in case I ever need to have a really hard edge to the sound, but I doubt it will ever be played much again.

Good luck to all of you who are still searching....it only took about 3 years for me.....and I got lucky.

[SplatterTone]

I found 3 mouthpieces that I could be satisfied with for a long time.

...
...
or not.


There are so many out there waiting to be tried.

[Tubaryan12]

I found 3 mouthpieces that I could be satisfied with for a long time.

...
...
or not.


There are so many out there waiting to be tried.

I'll leave that to you, good sir. All I know is this: Everytime I have played for the last 2 weeks...I play my part, then I smile. The notes just fall out of the horn.

[jbaylies]

Of course, I did wrap a piece of lead tape around the shank at the bowl of the Kelly to keep it from overblowing.

Can someone explain how to do this?