Valve oil for older valves.

euphomate · Post by **euphomate** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:31 pm

Any recommendations for a heavier than normal valve oil suitable for an older tuba with a bit of wear in the SS valves? I,m thinking that a heavier oil might seal them up a bit, although the situation is not too bad, and pretty normal for it's age & history. I've been using La Tromba T2. I wouldn't want to slow down my lightening fast fingering.

euphomate · Post by **euphomate** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Bloke. As John McEnroe used to scream "You can,t be serious"!

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Quite some time back, when I was experimenting with different valve oils, I tried the Viper oil with Teflon. On a horn with very close fitting rotors, the rotors would start to drag, and the problem went away when I stopped using the Viper oil. So I wonder if it is possible it was the Teflon adding enough of a layer to cause the problem, or was some other coincicental thing the cause.

If it was the Teflon, then I wonder if it would help with worn valves. That is: Instead of motor oil, would Slick 50 help?

brianggilbert · Post by **brianggilbert** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:13 pm

Hetman's makes an oil specially formulated for older valves.

Quite a few folks have talked about it on this forum.

sungfw · Post by **sungfw** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:16 pm

euphomate wrote:Bloke. As John McEnroe used to scream "You can,t be serious"!

Serious as a heart attack ... and not the only instrument repair tech to recommend it.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:36 pm

For worn valves, I take my large bottle of Roche Thomas, fill a 1 ounce travel bottle, and put a couple of drops of pharmaceutical grade mineral oil in it. It seals everything up without slowing down the valves, and is much less expensive than a lot of other options.

Caveat: make sure you only add the mineral oil to a traditional petroleum or kerosene based valve oil. It could react chemically with synthetics and cause precipitating out or sludge.

pulseczar · Post by **pulseczar** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:07 pm

If you decide to switch oils, remember to clean the valve and casing thoroughly.

tubacrow · Post by **tubacrow** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:15 pm

Denis Wick just came out with a valve oil with teflon in it. I use it and it seems to work, but to be honest I may not buy it again because it is very expensive for valve oil. almost 9 bucks where get it, but it does work. I think it works better than spacefiller.

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:21 pm

you can also use key oil for flutes and clarinets. Thats what I have done in the past

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:27 am

Bloke, as usual, offered the most practical solution.
I find 10 drops of 30 weight oil added to two ounces of ultrapure lamp oil gives me the best lube I have ever known for my 1940 King.
I, also, need to lube far less often. The horn can set up for several days after a grueling long gig and the valves are not sticky.

euphomate · Post by **euphomate** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:43 am

tubatooter1940 wrote:Bloke, as usual, offered the most practical solution.
I find 10 drops of 30 weight oil added to two ounces of ultrapure lamp oil gives me the best lube I have ever known for my 1940 King.
I, also, need to lube far less often. The horn can set up for several days after a grueling long gig and the valves are not sticky.

Perchance my son is a chemical engineer in the petroleum industry. He suggests I don't risk inhaling microscopic particles of automative oil knowing it's composition and some of the additives included. The oil companies didn't figure folks would be adding it to wind instruments when they formulated the stuff for auto engines. Petroleum based valve oils ARE formulated for horns.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:59 am

euphmate wrote:Perchance my son is a chemical engineer in the petroleum industry. He suggests I don't risk inhaling microscopic particles of automative oil knowing it's composition and some of the additives included. The oil companies didn't figure folks would be adding it to wind instruments when they formulated the stuff for auto engines. Petroleum based valve oils ARE formulated for horns.

I would tend to agree with you (and your son). One reason I never tried STP for slides.

I think Hetman's #3 would be good for worn valves. It's synthetic and designed for valves with some wear.

From Joe Hetman's website: http://www.hetman.com/products.html

"HET3. CLASSIC PISTON - Synthetic protection for your classic instrument. Specially formulated oil helps to seal piston valves that exhibit greater than average clearance. Helps prevent valves from sticking. PN: H3-CP-60."

WWBW link for HET-3:

MikeS · Post by **MikeS** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:01 am

I use one part rotor oil to four parts Al Cass for my 1930's vintage horn. It works well for me.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:30 am

euphomate wrote:
tubatooter1940 wrote:Bloke, as usual, offered the most practical solution.
I find 10 drops of 30 weight oil added to two ounces of ultrapure lamp oil gives me the best lube I have ever known for my 1940 King.
I, also, need to lube far less often. The horn can set up for several days after a grueling long gig and the valves are not sticky.
Perchance my son is a chemical engineer in the petroleum industry. He suggests I don't risk inhaling microscopic particles of automative oil knowing it's composition and some of the additives included. The oil companies didn't figure folks would be adding it to wind instruments when they formulated the stuff for auto engines. Petroleum based valve oils ARE formulated for horns.

I suppose it's never good to expose yourself to unknown elements. However, I wonder if the folks who work in the environments where they make petroelum products treat the oils has hazardous. I know that AFTER oils are exposed to the high temperatures in automotive applications, the waste oil is supposed to be disposed properly... but what about before?

It's true that there are warning labels on the bottles of lamp oil... indicating that ingestion and/or prolonged exposure can cause serious problems (including DEATH!)... But, whenever I see this on a label, I wonder just how much of this is simply CYA and how much is real.

At any rate, I AIN'T GONNA DRINK THE STUFF!

FreeBandMusic · Post by **FreeBandMusic** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:36 am

I've used Hetman's Classic Piston, which I read as "Thick oil for leaky old tubas". It works great on my Martin Eb, though I've learned not to use it on tighter horns like my euph.

John Thompson
Visit FreeBandMusic.biz for free music for concert band and brass quintet.

euphomate · Post by **euphomate** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:31 pm

As to the risk associated with inhaling automative oil particles (inc toxic additives) over time, that's a personal choice we all must make. Keep in mind that the valves are usually not that far from the chops. I passed on good advice because I felt obliged to. Me, I'm not going to risk my hobby adding to the toxic cocktail that Bloke rightly points out we are exposed to daily, and often can't avoid. I've gone the Hetman Classic route, I'd never heard of it before, and it's not available in my country. Thanks all for the advice on this product. Mouthpiece Express have come to the rescue again, I'll have it within a week.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:11 pm

the waste oil is supposed to be disposed properly...

Which means: Pour it along the fence or anywhere else there are weeds that need to be killed.

TubaSailor · Post by **TubaSailor** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:31 pm

For Dan's question (and anyone else that might be interested): as a former oil tanker operator / officer - the short answer is YES! - Oil products of almost any kind are treated as toxic - some are extremely toxic! (Three - four inhalations & you're dead) Nothing you'll encounter in the normal world (read: ashore, outside a refinery) will be that bad, but I'd not bet on long-term exposures to anything you might regret in later years. (It's really hard to go back and fix)

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:40 am

Anyone have any experience with Webster's valve oil and slide lubricants? I have a customer who always brings his oils and lube with him... Webster's. The slide lube is actually a gel. It looks like very good stuff.

tofu · Post by **tofu** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:06 am

TubeNet

Valve oil for older valves.

Valve oil for older valves.

Oil Toxicity