high school

BriceT · Post by **BriceT** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:17 pm

Your not the only one. I'm a freshmen in high school. My school has "crappy" Yamaha 641 BBb tubas, so I decided to by my own CC tuba. Best decision of my life.

The Jackson · Post by **The Jackson** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:24 pm

Brice, your signature is making go into rigor mortis.

I'm a sophmore and should hopefully have a job soon. I don't really have to worry about getting my own horn soon, though. I've been lucky enough to use one of the two 186's my school got.

There are a few of us hi skewlrz on here, which is pretty cool.

The Jackson · Post by **The Jackson** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:37 pm

One thing that has perplexed me for some time:

Why do band directors (or whoever makes the orders) buy those Yamaha YBB-641's? Miraphone 186-4U Pro Series (Not even the "Standard" version) BBb's go for almost 2 grand less, so the decision, to me, is nonexistant. Is it the Yamaha name or what?

BriceT · Post by **BriceT** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:47 pm

Why do band directors (or whoever makes the orders) buy those Yamaha YBB-641's? Miraphone 186-4U Pro Series (Not even the "Standard" version) BBb's go for almost 2 grand less, so the decision, to me, is nonexistant. Is it the Yamaha name or what?

I agree 100%. I have been trying to convince my band directors for a while, and they just do not see the need. The 186's is so much better and the overall quality of the instrument is much better. Baffling!

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:51 pm

The Jackson wrote:One thing that has perplexed me for some time:

Why do band directors (or whoever makes the orders) buy those Yamaha YBB-641's? Miraphone 186-4U Pro Series (Not even the "Standard" version) BBb's go for almost 2 grand less, so the decision, to me, is nonexistant. Is it the Yamaha name or what?

Possibly because they get them for less than the Miraphones. Yamaha can afford to sell their horns for much less because its one of the largets corporations in the world. I also don't think that they are crappy horns. There are better tubas out there, but the 641 isn't horrid. Having said that, I would rather have the 186. Mostly because i'm just a flat out German tuba snob

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:07 am

tubashaman wrote:
BriceT wrote:
yes a st petersburg is cheaper, but if taken care of equally, the miraphone 186 will last longer and sounds WAY better

I had the privledge to play on a St. Petersburg belonging to the tuba player in the Kirov Orchestra. It is still to this day one of the finest instruments I have ever played on. Better than any 186 I have played. I love Miraphones don't get me wrong, but this St. Petersburg was astounding.

The Jackson · Post by **The Jackson** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:08 am

ZNC Dandy wrote:Possibly because they get them for less than the Miraphones. Yamaha can afford to sell their horns for much less because its one of the largets corporations in the world.

That would indeed change things up. I assumed that they payed regular retail price because I glimpsed my director looking at some [French] horns on WWBW one day.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:13 am

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:19 am

The Jackson wrote:
ZNC Dandy wrote:Possibly because they get them for less than the Miraphones. Yamaha can afford to sell their horns for much less because its one of the largets corporations in the world.
That would indeed change things up. I assumed that they payed regular retail price because I glimpsed my director looking at some [French] horns on WWBW one day.

Most schools have to go through a bidding process, to find the best price because they are a governmental institution. Just like hiring waste management or road builders etc etc etc. Whoever comes in cheapest wins. Sometimes to the detriment of the constituency.

Blake Dowling · Post by **Blake Dowling** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:21 am

When I was in High school, about 4 years ago I was able to look at the inventory list for the tubas ( I was section leader, so I got the job of checking all concert tubas and sousaphones for damage and what not.) In any case each of the 7 Yamaha 641 BBb's the my school owned were purchased for roughly $3500 a piece with a hard case. All are still in fantastic working order ( I believe that the oldest horn was bought in 1989 and the newest Yamaha was bought in 1996.) Those horns aren't great but they really are a great "bang for your buck"

jbaylies · Post by **jbaylies** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:56 am

My high school has 11 tubas, only 3 work... But I'm lucky enough to be borrowing a pretty good one from a college!

I'm really hoping to buy one soon.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:14 pm

I do the tuba repair work for several Junior and High Schools in the area. It's amazing the difference I see between the schools with regard to how they take care of their tubas. I was only ten years old when I started playing tuba back in 1956. As I recall... the grade school band director didn't know squat (or didn't care) about even simple things like doing routine service like oiling the valves & slides and taking care of the satin-silver finish. In junior high it was different... the teacher director was a low brass player and took serious interest in how the tubas were handled. Next... in high school... the director could not have cared less that the valves on our 20K sousas were a constant problem.

I see two problems...

1) Teachers who do not know or care.
2) Students who do not know or care.

Basicaly, I think all students are good... at least in the beginning. It's how they are taught that makes the difference.

It's true that some tubas might be a bit more durable than others. But... with reasonable care, ANY tuba can be made to last for a while.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:47 pm

TubaTinker wrote: I see two problems...

1) Teachers who do not know or care.
2) Students who do not know or care.

I can certainly agree with this.

TubaTinker wrote:Basicaly, I think all students are good... at least in the beginning. It's how they are taught that makes the difference.

I've gotta disagree with this. I try very hard to teach this. I have many students who don't care about taking care of anything, much a school-owned instrument.

PWtuba · Post by **PWtuba** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:26 pm

TubaRay wrote: I have many students who don't care about taking care of anything, much a school-owned instrument.

Most of my tuba colleagues at my high school don't give a dime about their horns, either. As a result, the really nice Meinls we have are in terrible condition.

Luckily, I have my own horn...

tubaguy9 · Post by **tubaguy9** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:09 pm

ZNC Dandy wrote:
The Jackson wrote:One thing that has perplexed me for some time:

Why do band directors (or whoever makes the orders) buy those Yamaha YBB-641's? Miraphone 186-4U Pro Series (Not even the "Standard" version) BBb's go for almost 2 grand less, so the decision, to me, is nonexistant. Is it the Yamaha name or what?
There are better tubas out there, but the 641 isn't horrid.

Yeah, but the Yamaha 321's are horrid.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:48 pm

bloke wrote:The YBB-641 tubas cost thousands more than the B&S-made "Accent" tubas, but are clearly inferior to the B&S-made "Accent" tubas.

YBB-641 are (apparently) tubas designed to be sold to non-tuba playing band directors and school system purchasing departments...not tuba players.

I totally agree. Those YBB-641 tubas are a perfect example of marketing people hard at work. The popularity of these horns is certainly NOT a matter of how good they play!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:08 pm

I agree. A local dealer is the Yamaha dealer. They have "connections" all over the area, and the marketing hype goes well beyond those particular Yamaha instruments that are quality instruments. A friend of mine went on and on about getting one for his son. Funny thing, however: I don't hear him talking about it now.

tubacrow · Post by **tubacrow** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:20 am

Are we discussing the Pre numbering change of Yamaha? because if memory serves currently the YBB-641 is their lowest of the professional line. I am not defending the yamaha product or any brand for that matter, but I am just asking for the clarity.
I would also like to have had the buget while I was teaching that apperantly some of these schools have. I had to fight to get the money to buy a reconditioned Miraphone for the school district. I actually had to go to the school board meeting and play on the schools Lyons and Heally tuba, which had spent over fifty years in students hands.

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:49 am

tubashaman wrote:Its been discussed in the past the Yahama BBbs like the YBB641 arent really professional models

Yamaha certainly considers the YBB-641 to be a professional horn. See the website:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html

But, I suppose that opens up a whole 'nother can o' worms.

adam0408 · Post by **adam0408** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:13 am

What I am considerably shocked at is the fact that so many high schoolers on here own their own (most pretty nice it seems) horns. How is that possible?

Did you buy one instead of a car? I am curious! I didn't even think about getting my own horn until college, and I got a lot of financial help purchasing it.

As far as the Yamaha debate, the 641s do suck, but aren't horrible for school horns. Sometimes I think they are better suited for high school work than a miraphone 186, although I feel the 186 is a much better horn. I played a 186 all through high school, and I enjoyed the experience. When it comes down to it, you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. The 641 was obviously not built with the professional player in mind.

As far as I am concerned, St. Petes belong where they came from: A Russian scrap heap.

Now, this might ruffle some feathers, but I feel a nice tuba for high school playing is a waste of money except in cases of extreme talent and dedication. Most high schoolers can't play well enough to justify the roughly $5000+ expense of a CC tuba.

Please don't take offense at that comment. I realize many of you probably have very bright futures and are dedicated to your art. However, the average high school tubist(including myself at that age) fits my profile.

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