I am not sure if this is TubeNet or Off Topic, so feel free to move it if necessary.
This is something I have wondered for a long time now...
How long should a horn take to pay for itself?
Some big name players drop $23K on a horn, but if they make $100K a year then it is only a matter of months.
Keep in mind how much of your income that does not involve THAT specific horn - might an F tuba take at least 2-3 years to pay for itself if most of your paying gigs are on CC? How about that elusive Cimbasso if you are not in a fulltime opera company?
What about teaching - you do not technically need ANY horn to teach at all, so all teaching income (including private lessons) should be excluded from the formula as well. Sticking a mouthpiece in a student's horn and making their horn sound good often makes a bigger impression than playing the same example on your horn and robs them of excuses - "Your horn sounds better because it is newer / older, bigger / smaller, it has more valves / different valves, or... it is silver"
tubacrow wrote:(Paid Perfomances using horn in Question) = A
(Fee for Performances)= B Cost
A * mean of B = Time
I think that formula would work
Actually, it's not the mean, but the average, and depending on what else, including other living expenses and other sources of income, it may take longer or shorter. So try this instead:
A * (average of B) - (other living expenses) + (other income dedicated to the cause) + (interest if a time purchase) = payoff time
One thing to consider is the intangible of the fulfillment your arsenal of horns will provide the tubist, the other musicians in the group, and the audience. It's as the credit card commercial says..."priceless". Honestly, I'm not sure that even my degree in music education "paid for itself". There are people who go to my church who started working at Cooper Tire and Rubber Company upon graduating high school who make twice my income and benefits. Now, if you simply put a dollar value to my decision to further my education, I am a fool. However, I would not trade occupations with any of them. It would leave me unfulfilled. Who could know the ramifications to my health if I had chosen to work in a foundary? I know it sounds as if I'm chasing a rabbit. My point is, it's not always about the money. Is there anybody among us who chose to pursue a career in music with money being the primary factor that influenced that decision? If so, that person was grossly misled. If not, then there must have been other factors that contributed. How much time should it take for a instrument to pay for itself? If you consider the intangibles, it may only take one blessed concert experience!
Last edited by Eric B on Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Miraphone CC 186-4U
Weril 980S
Ibanez acoustic guitar
The cost of a tuba is the present value of the salvage value at the end of the analysis life subtracted from the price paid for the tuba.
Note that the present value of the salvage value can be higher than the initial cost, making the cost negative. When that's the case, the tuba paid for itself the moment you wrote the check.
Note that it's important to compare in present dollars. If I buy a Miraphone in 1972 for $1200, and sell it for $3000 in 2008, then I did NOT make money on it. $3000 in 2008 is still worth (much) less than $1200 in 1972. It's not just inflation--it's also what you gave up by spending the money on a tuba instead of making a known good investment. This is known as the cost of money, and most economic analysis figures about 8% per year. What that says is that if you invested $1200 in 1972 at an 8% rate of return, you would have MUCH more than $3000 (actually, you would have $17,742).
Now, you have to make a decision. How long are you going to keep the tuba? You must have an intended "design life". Once you know that, then turn your present worth into a series of annual "payments" for that life.
The formulas for calculating present value and payments given present worth are built into Excel, so spend some time in the help files.
Once you know the true cost, then you need to figure the true income. And that, too, is the present worth of the income you produced using that instrument that is then turned into an annual figure over the life of the tuba. Turning it into present worth and then into an annual figure takes care of the averaging and makes it a lot easier to calculate, unless the income is steady, which it never is for the question you are asking.
Then, just divide the true annual income by the true annual cost. If the cost exceeds the income, the tuba has not paid for itself. If the income exceeds the cost, it has paid for itself.
If you don't intend to ever sell the tuba, then assume a design life from now until you die, and figure the income over that timespan, too. The salvage value will be zero (from your perspective).
Now, here's where I'm going to tell you to forget all that.
Even for pros that buy new, the cost of ownership of a high-end tuba is quite low if they keep it a while, and usually much too low for it to even be a question. For them, it's not a long-term value question as much as it is a cash-right-now question.
For example: Let's say I bought a Yorkbrunner in 1987 for $13,000. Let's say I can sell it now for $11,000. At an 8% cost of money, that $11K is only worth $2360 in 1987. So, the true cost in 1987 dollars is $10,640. The annual "payment" to amortize $10,640 over 20 years is $1084. Nearly any pro would make far more than that, no matter how you figured it.
Where it gets silly is when one buys new instruments and sells them a year later at a much-depreciated price. But I don't think that happens that much with tubas, at least not for long.
For amateurs, the "income" has to be measure in terms of the enjoyment they receive. By that measure, I'm WAY ahead with the tubas I've bought.
My Yamaha 621 F tuba is the only one of my tubas that paid for itself on professional terms. That was the tuba I used in the TubaMeisters. But I didn't care about that when I bought it.
Being that I am a recreational player, I never even consider the possibility that any of my horns will pay for themselves. That being said, I have an old 1923 Keefer EEb that I bought on eBay several years ago that has paid itself MANY time over. I use it as the donation recepticle out in the lobby of the theater for one the community bands I play with. The donations taken in on the first night sitting in the lobby paid for the horn. So now you all know how to do it... get a stand and put a sign on the bell and let folks drop their cash in the bell as they walk by...
MaryAnn wrote:That's a great idea! Do you get any smart alecs who drop coins in instead of bills? I have an old Eb that might fit that same bill....hmmm.
MA
Yeah, we get the normal collection of quarters, dimes, nickles and pennies, but they were more than made up for by someone who dropped in a $100 dollar bill the first night. We average about $220 in donations every concert. The sign I have on the bell says it's for the postage fund so we can mail out concert announcements. We have almost 1000 names on our mailing list, so that kind of postage volume adds up real fast.
So now you all know how to do it... get a stand and put a sign on the bell and let folks drop their cash in the bell as they walk by...
