New Cerveny F (Horn dorn)

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:25 am

It's interesting to hear the differences from the orchestra perspective. I've been a fan of the Yamaha 621 F's as well, I hope to be able to AB it with my little Cerveny at some point in time.
I've been playing the Cerveny in our local community band (Cobb Wind Symphony) and we're playing a couple of sets this afternoon at the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Center. We're working with cut down numbers due to short notice for the concerts, so I was a bit nervous about bringing the F instead of my 188, but we had 2 CCs and a BBb show up, so the F really helps add definition to the sound of the section and functions well at the softer dynamic levels we're using (due to the smaller section sizes in the clarinets, trumpets, horns, etc). Overall, the low range on the little guy leaves very little to be desired. The real difference is not in response, but in tone. The F has a more centered and defined sound, whereas the contrabass is far more broad and foundational.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:28 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Maybe I should just get a new one (I think I'll wait til Brooke gets his to see if they can be decently consistent) and use it as my main horn (I am part German!).

How did you happen on it Jones?

I can't tell you how I agonized over getting an F as my main horn instead of a contrabass some years ago. If I had to do it all over again, I have to say I'd go with an F. I'm sure A LOT of people here would disagree with me on that, but the Germans definitely don't. The real difference, to me, is in the tone department. All the notes I need are there, and then some.

How did I find it? I was in the market for an F (again) and basically looked at used and new horns online. I've played quite a bit of F, so I knew I wanted something for quintet, tuba quartet, and solo literature. I didn't need a gigantic F (that's what I have the CC for), so I really considered 4/4 and smaller F's, with the Cerveny and the Yamaha 621 being the main contenders. The price got me the horn NEW from Dillon's (THANKS, MATT!!) and the playability made me a fan. That's about it. Just go for a new one, Bob. And get the 5th valve!!

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:18 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Wade, I believe that either Dillon's or the US Amati/Cerveny warehouse (not sure of their relationship) has a new 6 valved model. I don't know if it is a 653 or 654 though.

However, if the 653 is better than the 654, than a 653 WITH a quint valve has gotta be one bad little horn (though maybe you could add your 654 quint valve to a 653! )!

Dillon's actually list two Cerveny 6-valve Fs -- the 654 (like Wade's) and the 661, which is a larger bore (20 mm vs. 18 mm for the 653 and 654) F:

Cerveny CFB 654-6 F Tuba
http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... %2faPik%3d

Cerveny CFB 661-6 F Tuba
http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 03sdTu0%3d

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:07 am

Kevin, you are correct. Unfortunately, I believe the real issue is having them in stock. It would be great if one could go and A-B-C them against one another and other F's, but I don't believe anyone here in the US is carrying any stock of the Cerveny F's.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:06 am

Yes, having these little cerveny's in stock is the real problem. One would wish to be able to make comparisons...but not likely.

I'm pretty much a blind man right now. I had to place an order and I am still waiting to hear about the horn.

But as long as consistancy plays in, then I believe I will have a fine horn. You don't know unless you try.

A week or so ago, I was told 20 days and I would find out of it's in....sooooo we shall see.

This is all cool information. I was looking at the Yamaha 621 for a while, but after hearing of this 653 Cerveny, I had to at least give it a try.....maybe we'll get everyone on the 653 fad....hahaha

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:24 pm

October 10th is the date the horn comes in. I'm counting down now.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:41 pm

jonesbrass wrote:
I can't tell you how I agonized over getting an F as my main horn instead of a contrabass some years ago. If I had to do it all over again, I have to say I'd go with an F. I'm sure A LOT of people here would disagree with me on that, but the Germans definitely don't. The real difference, to me, is in the tone department. All the notes I need are there, and then some.

I thoroughly agree. I sold a CC Piggy in '89, had only the B&S F and a souzie for a long time. 2003, bought a somewhat clunker old Conn BBb, traded that for an Eb, then sold that for my little Weril 680 BBb.

Some have said the things I've played on F can't be done...well, maybe they SHOULDN'T be done on F, but there aren't many things not possible. If it's a matter of fingers, hell, I've played dixie on F for so long the low fingers are no problem. Range is no problem either, this B&S has a great C range and the pedal range is great. But, it's 23 years old, and I'm tired of it getting beat up and beer-blown and whatever else, so the succession of trials has finally ended successfully. I've been changing back and forth between the F and the BBb for successive gigs lately, playing one day on one, switching for the next day. I've even had both on stage to really see if they're equally effective. Each in its own way, they're equally effective on the gigs I end up playing anymore.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:28 am

Richard Brown wrote:Just wanted to pass along a European dealer for Cerveny tubas that offers free shipping to the USA and includes a hard case & mpc in his pricing. Looks like he has an 854-6 F in stock for a pretty good price(it has the tension-adjustable clock spring levers). Here's the link:

http://www.eng.musikhaus.auf.co.at/

I visited that dealer when on holiday in Austria this year. You can't assume that all the tubas listed on the website are in stock. I was hoping to try a Cerveny CC, but he had none. I guess the tubas must be shipped direct from the factory on order.

pierso20 · Post by **pierso20** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:29 am

that's how cerveny does it. Everything is shipped from the Factory to order. So what is in stock somewhere, is a special thing.

I agree Bob.......if my horn is as nice as Jones', then a mass order my be in order.

(zing?)

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:33 am

Cerveny definitely seems to build and ship from the factory only when an order is placed- hardly anyone seems to carry a stock of them.
In addition, I would imagine that an Austrian music store (I looked into them, too, but was nervous about sending my funds internationally knowing I would have a real legal problem on my hands if they decided not to fulfill the order) would stock BBb's and F's, and no CC's, because I don't believe there would be much market in the German-speaking countries for a CC, especially at a low price point.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:38 am

jonesbrass wrote:I would imagine that an Austrian music store ... would stock BBb's and F's, and no CC's, because I don't believe there would be much market in the German-speaking countries for a CC, especially at a low price point.

You imagine correct, although I was surprised that they also had one Eb out of about ten Cerveny tubas in the shop.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:58 am

Richard Brown wrote: Musikhaus Sonnleitner link: http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/f_tuben/cfb_854_6m.php

Interesting clockwork valves - "Dutchman printing machine". I have not heard that term before. Looks particularly good for someone with small hands, or arthritis with the spring pressure being adjustable.

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:24 am

Neptune wrote:You imagine correct, although I was surprised that they also had one Eb out of about ten Cerveny tubas in the shop.

Was it the smaller or larger E flat model? How did it play?

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:01 am

finnbogi wrote:
Neptune wrote:You imagine correct, although I was surprised that they also had one Eb out of about ten Cerveny tubas in the shop.
Was it the smaller or larger E flat model? How did it play?

It was the larger one CEB651 - http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/eeb_tuben/ceb651_4m.php

It played pretty well with an F tuba sort of tone. I did not check its intonation with a tuner, but did not notice any goofy notes. Its low register was not as open as my 2040/5, but quite acceptable for a small tuba.

If you are interested in one of the smaller Cerveny 641 Eb's, I know that one is for sale at this shop in Scotland - http://www.williamphillipswinds.co.uk as by chance I met the proprietor a few weeks ago. He proudly told me all his Cerveny tubas had been hand-picked at the factory by Phillip Hore, former tubist of the Royal Scottish National Orchestra.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:34 am

Bob1062 wrote:I found a 4 valve Cerveny F for sale about a half an hour from me.

Oddly enough, it is labeled as a Conn Styriation 90J.

The seller emailed me a picture and it is very clean. It appears to be a taller model than the 653, BUT not as tall as the the other Cerveny stovepipe horns. The main slide is shorter than all the pictures I've seen of 653 and the leadpipe is not as "loopy."

For this price, I could get a stock 5th valve and a 5th valve 1st valve (taller, thinner, and with more pull; thinner to fit the 5th valve) added for about what I've seen others run for a used 4 valve!

Bob, can you post a picture of this horn? Sounds a lot like my first F, a Musica-Steyr (SP?). It was a pretty good horn, but not as good as my 653. In any event, you'll need to try that one out. Let us know how it goes.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:42 pm

What is that Bob? It does not look like Cerveny on the bell!

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:48 am

Nice pea-shooter Bob! Congrats.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:29 am

Bob!! Is this one yours? It sure looks like my first F, a Musica-Steyr (also a Cerveny stencil). How do you like it?

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:50 pm

Thought you were able to get yourself one . . . too bad, Bob.