What non traditional means, have you used to...

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:00 am

Make your horn sound better? I recently wrapped a leather belt around the bell of my horn, and it made an amazing difference in tone quality and projection. Even the tin eared string players noticed. Anyone else used anything like this? or any other "strange" things to improve the sound of your horn?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:17 am

I practiced once.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:18 am

Three ounces of bourbon.
Oh wait ....
That's traditional.
Never mind.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:50 am

I do practice, quite often actually. Fortunately my job affords me the privledge of practicing a few hours daily. The 20" bell on my horn was vibrating too much for my taste. I added the belt, and that made a wonderful difference in tone and projection. To my ears, my colleaugues, and the tape recorder. I guess I can't ask questions like this without first stating that I practice often? I know the older 2165 used to have a "tone ring" inside the bell. Has anyone tried this with other horns? Sorry if I struck a nerve with anyone...

Todd S. Malicoate · Post by **Todd S. Malicoate** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:56 am

I doubt you struck anyone's nerve...more likely nobody has tried a trick like yours. I know I haven't ever stuffed anything in, wrapped anything around, or attached via sticky tape or other material anything to my bell to change the sound for the better.

It was either the humorous comments, or the sound of crickets, IMO.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:35 am

the elephant wrote:The belt around the bell used to be a fairly common experiment. Used to see it all the time.

Along with duct tape in the bell, ribbing soldered down the interior length of the bell, Monsterweights(R), black paint, vinyl molding around the bell rim, lead tape on the mouthpiece, and other harmless placebos.

I doubt there is anything nontraditional about any particular goofy experiment one might come up with. I once covered a metal bookend in Scotch tape to test the effect of a really thick finish on its natural resonance. While I may have been the first to use a bookend (it's what I had at the time), I rather doubt I was the first to conduct that experiment.

Rick "who has a cloth belt and hose clamps in strategic spots on one tuba" Denney

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:59 am

ZNC Dandy wrote:.... Sorry if I struck a nerve with anyone...

Naw.... it was just an opportunity on my part to make a feeble attempt at humor. Sorry. On most of my bell-up horns, I keep split vinyl icemaker tubing on the bell rims. It not only protects the rim from scratches, but it also eliminates the 'ringing' that often comes from tuba bells. The 'ringing' is sometimes especially bad on larger sousa bells.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:57 am

Rosco wrote:where on the bell did you put the belt?

Through the belt loops, of course. You mean that your tuba didn't COME with 'em?

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:46 pm

Rosco wrote:Quick question: where on the bell did you put the belt?

Its just below the manufacturers emblem.

kingrob76 · Post by **kingrob76** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Mike Bunn (Kennedy Center Opera House) used to have an Alex that had the old duct tape / belt trick on the bell. This was later replaced by a band of metal about 3 inches wide and 1 inch thick on the outside of the bell. Mike was never too keen on letting other people play his equipment but he swore by it. I can only imagine what it did to the balance of the horn.

hbcrandy · Post by **hbcrandy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:57 pm

When I studied with Warren Deck in New York in the early 1980's, Warren was playing a Conn CC, rotary valved tuba with a detachable bell. Warren thought that the detachable bell collar helped to focus the sound as it came out of the bell. This was the origin of the brass ring inside the the bell throat of the Meinl Weston 2165 that Warren helped design. I was playing an Alexander CC tuba. Alexanders have long bell throats. During lessons, Warren would tighten a leather belt around the throat of my Alexander while I played. He would try several locations before he found what he thought was the optimum location. He would mark it in washable magic marker and tell me to go home and wrap large amount of duct tape around the bell to simulate his detachable bell collar. I would do it. However, when I played the tuba with the tape around the bell, I found that I could not accurately hit some notes that I could before. So I would take it off. For a while, the next lesson would be the same drill until Warren finally stopped this with me. Also, the Deck Model Meinl Weston was eventually revised so as not to have the large brass ring in the bell.

One of my current CC tubas is an old Bill Bell Model Meinl Weston with a detachable bell. I like the sound and response of this tuba. I have played it side-by-side with newer models that do not have the detachable bells and I must admit, I like the sound of mine better. I find the sound more focused. But, when you are dealing with the many other variables that are present in the design and building of a tuba, I cannot say for sure that the detachable bell collar is the answer.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:17 pm

ZNC Dandy wrote:
Rosco wrote:Quick question: where on the bell did you put the belt?
Its just below the manufacturers emblem.

Hmmm... one of the guys I play tuba with in a couple of bands here owns a Sanders tuba (Custom Music variety) that has a band of brass about 1 1/2" wide and 1/16" thick soldered to the inside of the bell in about the same location. I've often wondered what it was for since it's not covering a bell seam. It may have been put there to kill bell vibration and ringing.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:27 pm

bloke: the "Steven Wright" of TubeNet

FreeBandMusic · Post by **FreeBandMusic** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:33 am

Sort of on point...

Years ago I had rehearsals in a room with a concrete floor. For once I had a decent looking horn (all my horns look like junk!) and I didn't want to scratch up the bell, so I bought a steering wheel cover and slipped it over the bell rim of my Cerveny.

The result? It was perfect at protecting the bell, but the sound, at least from behind the horn, became totally dead. I took it off and began using a carpet square.

John
Visit FreeBandMusic.biz and download free music for Concert Band.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:03 am

As someone who stripped the European lacquer from my horn years ago for the same reason

, I question:

Does it actually make any difference further than 10' from the horn/player?

If it doesn't make a difference in the hall, does it make a difference?

FreeBandMusic · Post by **FreeBandMusic** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:15 pm

WindShieldBug said:
>> Does it actually make any difference further than 10' from
>> the horn/player?
>> If it doesn't make a difference in the hall, does it make a
>> difference?

To me, yes. I play because I enjoy it. I have to like the way I sound to myself, or I'm not going to enjoy it. And I believe I'll sound better to the audience if I can really get into the music. Maybe its the difference between pro and amatuer?

John Thompson

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:20 pm

FreeBandMusic wrote:To me, yes. I play because I enjoy it. I have to like the way I sound to myself, or I'm not going to enjoy it. And I believe I'll sound better to the audience if I can really get into the music. Maybe its the difference between pro and amatuer?

Well, I did the lacquer for the same reason. Anything that made me feel better about playing was, to me, worth it.

I wasn't trying to make that point, only that the actual SOUND may not be translated to the audience.

(If it made ME more confident and comfortable, I'd slather the sucker with white latex housepaint!).

What non traditional means, have you used to...

What non traditional means, have you used to...

Re: What non traditional means, have you used to...