How Many Orchestras *are* There?

[BriceT]

Just out of curiosity. How much would the biggest jobs pay? (Chicago, Philadelphia, LA Phil, London, etc.) I have always wondered this.

[Tom]

Just out of curiosity. How much would the biggest jobs pay? (Chicago, Philadelphia, LA Phil, London, etc.) I have always wondered this.

Approximately $100k +

[tofu]

[rocksanddirt]

And the thing about the large city orchestra's salary is that it's going to include time in the studio mak'n records. So actually a lot more like full time work and limited time for students, ensemble work, and similar opportunities that many folks enjoy also.

[corbasse]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that there are 300 (professional?) orchestras in Germany. Is this accurate?

There are 132 official publicly funded orchestras, almost all of them symphonic. There's also a large number of professional wind bands and unofficial symphonic orchestras which could take the number well over 300.

[bill]

I was talking statistics, not tactics

[Liberty Mo]

Just out of curiosity. How much would the biggest jobs pay? (Chicago, Philadelphia, LA Phil, London, etc.) I have always wondered this.

Approximately $100k +

Let us not forget that many in major symphonies are also in endowed chairs which would increase that figure as well.

[Dan Schultz]

Sorry I did my math wrong for the discount tire thing....its only $25000 a year, making $10 an hour

I drive a real POS car....paid more for my F tuba in february than i did in 2004 for my clunker...but I know someone who claims to be paying $500 a month for his car to pay it off in 3 years

And... that $25,000 is BEFORE taxes. There's where your other $8,000 went that you thought you had left over.

In Southern Indiana.... It's very hard for me to imagine any musician making a descent living from playing in just one group or orchestra. Most of the musicians around here have to combine monies from perhaps two or more orchestras, teaching, and giging for weddings and private parties. I know of one tuba player who commutes three or four hours to play in two different symphonies. And... a maestro who does the same to conduct two symphonies.

I repair brass and also get a little money gigging. I do not teach. I can tell you this... if I still had two girls in college I would still be working full time as a manufacturing engineer/machine designer. I think the happiest musicians I know are people who have a career aside from music.

[Eupharitone]

Sorry I did my math wrong for the discount tire thing....its only $25000 a year, making $10 an hour

I drive a real POS car....paid more for my F tuba in february than i did in 2004 for my clunker...but I know someone who claims to be paying $500 a month for his car to pay it off in 3 years

And... that $25,000 is BEFORE taxes. There's where your other $8,000 went that you thought you had left over.

Mind explaining this figure? Tubashaman is from Texas so he doesn't have to pay state income tax, since he doesn't own land he also doesn't pay city property taxes or school taxes and such, and sales tax figures are already figured in....and as for Federal tax I think $25k/yr still puts him in one of the lower brackets (I think it's 15% but don't quote me on that).

[Todd S. Malicoate]

And... that $25,000 is BEFORE taxes. There's where your other $8,000 went that you thought you had left over.

Mind explaining this figure?

That leaves $8000 a year extra, unless im forgetting something.

He was forgetting something...$10 an hour, even at 30 hours a week (pushing it for part-time) is $15,600 before taxes. In 2007, a single filer making between $7,825 and $31,850 was taxed at the 15% rate (even in Texas!). That leaves $13,260. Then we take out 6.2% for that "FICA" guy...another $967.20...down to $12292.80. Medicare gets their 1.45%...another $226.20...down to $12066.60. Total tax burden = $3533.40, or 22.65%.

$12066.60...assuming he works 30 hours a week all year at $10 an hour. That's a pretty good stone's throw away from the $30K he said he was making on page 2.

Todd S. "who believes that under our ingenious tax system James thinks he 'gets it all back' every year" Malicoate

[Todd S. Malicoate]

This post is directed to those who scoff at we who hold full time jobs in such ensembles. Remember that while my group is not in ICSOM my personal position is full time, is a "real" job, and should NOT be dismissed out of hand by so many who have NO job at all.

Thank you for the very thorough explanation of ROPA orchestras and how they work.

But...

Who's scoffing? Or dismissing your job out of hand as less than "real"? So many? Not here. Overreact much?

Relax, soldier. You're seeing an enemy where none exists. Most folks here have a great deal of respect for what you do...if they don't, the hell with them anyway.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I meant that many here who are young and have little practical work or audition experience will not know that there are many more jobs out there then they seem ready to accept as actual jobs in orchestras what are quite decent despite the fact that they have never been heard of (or heard) by anyone here.

That is (as is nearly always the case from you, Wade) an excellent point. One that is rarely made here between the myriad of threads about how becoming a professional musician is a gamble at best.

I need to work harder at making ALL of my point and not nust some of it.

So do we all, my friend...so do we all.

[joebob]

Elephant makes a very good point about the perspective of the individuals who play all these various orchestra jobs. I think most of the people on this board without jobs are not widely denigrating Elephant's job. On the contrary I believe that most of the players here would consider winning such a job a dream come true. What I've found is that the people who hold these jobs sometimes belittle their own accomplishments. I've known players in very good ROPA groups who feel as if they never "made it" because they didn't make it into a larger budget orchestra - and I've also met many players with Elephant's perspective. The orchestras where the majority of players take pride in their jobs and what they do tend to be better jobs than the orchestras with players that don't, no matter what the salary/budget. It's not uncommon for a ROPA orchestra to outplay a bigger budget orchestra (as Elephant points out) simply because the players just care more. I once heard a veteran member of a major orchestra (this orchestra currently has a minimum salary of over $100,000 a year) say that he always wished he had won a "major job." What he meant was that he wished he'd made one of the "big five." I couldn't believe that he didn't consider his own job a "major job." It may surpise many of you here who would give one of your limbs to play in a professional orchestra that there are many people in professional orchestras who feel like failures because they never made "bigger orchestras." "Big job," "major job" or "full-time" is all in the eye or attitude of the beholder.

P.S. I'm calling adult swim now for any kids on here who are about to ask "what is the big five?" Before asking, at least try googling to find out for yourself.

[sloan]

* Alabama Symphony Orchestra: Christopher Confessore .

Justin Brown