My First F Tuba (Maybe) (Not)

[PWtuba]

I am deciding whether to buy this tuba or not. I probably will. This is just going to be a starter horn for me, as I'm only a high school student and have no need for a $10K Firebird, or whatever.

It is a B & S horn, marketed in America by Conn-Selmer under the name Musica, if I remember correctly. For a starter horn, it's supposed to be pretty good. It only has four valves.

The low range is surprisingly good for a $3000 F tuba with only four valves.

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[eupher61]

$3k is not bad for a horn in that condition, but yeah, I'd bet you could find an older B&S 5 valve for that money or close. By older, I'm thinking early-mid 80s.
I had thought about selling mine, but decided not to. I came up with $3800 with bag and hard case, but it's not for sale after all. It's a good example of a good playing F in 25 years of hard use condition.

[Mojo workin']

You could wait a long time for the right horn and circumstance to come about.

I think that you would not be that limited without the fifth valve for your purposes. If you are wanting this to begin working on the higher tessitura orchestral literature, this will do the job without the fifth valve. If you are wanting it for an all around horn, it will limit you without the fifth valve.

My first F tuba was a beat up, clock spring valve, stuffy as hell Graslitz that looked like it didn't make it through World War II. It had four valves. I was able to play the Berlioz-Torchinsky book with it. 'Nuff said.

[k001k47]

You can get a 5 valve Cerveny F for just over 3k at Dillon's...
They play awesome.

[Chen]

Don't buy it. You need at least 5 valves like the others said.

[pierso20]

I agree, you really need to learn F tuba with 5 valves. However, your first F doesn't need to be gold. It needs to be playable and something good to learn on.

Last fall I purchased a Cerveny F horn from Dillons. A 5-valve that cost me 3200. Not only is it a low cost horn, it plays VERY well and sounds great. Those in my studio including my professor agree not only to the sound but also, for those who have tried it, its playability. (My signiture on this message should have the model name of my horn). I purchased it from Matt at Dillon Music. Also, the quality of how it's made is good. It's a small horn, but definetely not difficult to learn.

B&S makes some good F's, but if you could spend the same for a horn and get the 5th valve and good quality..why not?

[Tom]

It is a B & S horn, marketed in America by Conn-Selmer under the name Musica, if I remember correctly.

I believe that this tuba is a Cerveny stencil, and not a B&S, as most, if not all, Musica branded tubas were.

That said, it's not a bad instrument, and if it grabs you, buy it, but I would save my shekels for something with more valves, if I were you.

[J Stowe]

Ya know, that horn seems so little: I bet it could really sing the high stuff.

[jonesbrass]

It is a B & S horn, marketed in America by Conn-Selmer under the name Musica, if I remember correctly.

I believe that this tuba is a Cerveny stencil, and not a B&S, as most, if not all, Musica branded tubas were.

That said, it's not a bad instrument, and if it grabs you, buy it, but I would save my shekels for something with more valves, if I were you.

I'm nearly certain that this is a Cerveny, as well. It actually looks a lot like this one: http://www.eng.cerveny.co.at/tuben/f_tu ... 51-4px.php, don't you think?

It appears to be the same as this horn, available for $1,200, which is much more reasonable for a used 4-valve F tuba (IMHO): http://www.netinstruments.com/a.php?a=35826. Although here's another for $2,400: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/msg/649591382.html.
You can definitely learn the basics on a 4-banger, but you'd be better off, I think, finding a 5-valve F. Otherwise the full range of the horn (i.e. low register) will not be easily playable.

[pierso20]

Those were my same thoughts.

Plus, I'm trying to start a Cerveny revolution.........

[pierso20]

Very well said! The key is to be happy with your purchase. Just because 5 valves are "better" doesn't mean they may serve your purpose. Definetely get a 5v if it is available at a 4v price, though you will most likely upgrade anyway, so saleability is important.

Good luck with the search!

[PWtuba]

I'm nearly certain that this is a Cerveny, as well. It actually looks a lot like this one: http://www.eng.cerveny.co.at/tuben/f_tu ... 51-4px.php, don't you think?

Gentlemen, I'm pretty sure that this is a B&S tuba. The man selling it is a reputable pro musician/repairman, and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. And it's definitely not the tuba in that picture. The bore on this tuba is .718. The leadpipe is red brass, and is closer to the main tubing at the top. The 1st and 4th slides are positioned differently on this horn as well.

[pierso20]

I'm nearly certain that this is a Cerveny, as well. It actually looks a lot like this one: http://www.eng.cerveny.co.at/tuben/f_tu ... 51-4px.php, don't you think?

Gentlemen, I'm pretty sure that this is a B&S tuba. The man selling it is a reputable pro musician/repairman, and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. And it's definitely not the tuba in that picture. The bore on this tuba is .718. The leadpipe is red brass, and is closer to the main tubing at the top. The 1st and 4th slides are positioned differently on this horn as well.

Well...........I'm not sure what the horn is since it looks like a Cerveny but I can't tell because the pictures don't let me see enough...like the logo..HA!

Anyway, whatever the case.................much of the advice still holds true.


And I'm sure Cerveny did have a revolution 160+ years ago...so let's star it again. It seems the quality is on the rise and price doesn't hurt. Though......I'm not sure I'd spring for a CC because I like my pistons.......and probably because I'm a follower...(piston CC, rotor F)

[pierso20]

I could have sworn there was a 5v piggy for sale here at one point in the past few months. Maybe on another site too...can't exactly remember. You may wanna look a bit..hehe

[Rick Denney]

The finger paddles look distinctly Cerveny/Eastern Europe/Russian. Not like the old B&S paddles that I've seen.

The paddles on my old B&S are quite similar to the paddles that were on my Cerveny Bb tuba of similar vintage. It even has clocksprings. Later paddles have been different on both. I can't conclude anything from that.

I have owned a Musica four-valve F tuba. This doesn't look like it at all. That one had bits that were clearly Amati/Cerveny, including the tall bottom-bow guard, the mouthpiece receiver style, and so on. And thought it's been 18+ years since I traded it away, my recollection is that it had a horizontal main slide. It did say "Made in Austria" on it, but my suspicion is that "assembled in Austria" or "distributed from Austria" would probably be closer to the truth.

Thus, I would be unwilling to assert anything about where this tuba was made.

But I also know that I bought a 5-valve B&S Symphonie, in excellent condition, for the same money only two or three years ago. And I know that maybe 20 years ago I paid $1000 for that Musica F tuba.

Rick "who traded away the Musica because of the limitation of four valves" Denney

[jeopardymaster]

That is a lot of cheese for a 4-valve F. Like Doc, I picked up a 4 valver just to learn to play F tuba, but sure didn't pay so much.

[pierso20]

So, I just noticed scroll bars by the pictures and the bell definetely says "Musica" which is amati/cerveny.....right?????

so......then, not B&S and DEFINITELY not worth 3000...hm....

Unless I have NO clue what I'm talking about....which is a possibility.

[Rick Denney]

Aren't you glad you got that Symphonie?

Uh, yes. It's the only tuba I managed to buy out from under Mike Lynch. That is such an accomplishment that I'm adding it to my resume.

I took it to Bloke for an appraisal, and he pronounced it Good. His play-testing did nothing to undermine that assessment.

I have to admit that I paid about the same for my Yamaha 621, which is just as good for its different purpose. I bought it as a demonstrator at TMEA in maybe 1990 or 1991, after Lee Hipp and Ray Grim pronounced it Good. They were still new and Yamaha was selling them cheap. Not so any more.

Rick "thinking three large should be enough for real F tuba, not a starter F tuba, if you don't mind long teeth" Denney

[Rick Denney]

So, I just noticed scroll bars by the pictures and the bell definetely says "Musica" which is amati/cerveny.....right?????

so......then, not B&S and DEFINITELY not worth 3000...hm....

Unless I have NO clue what I'm talking about....which is a possibility.

"Musica" was a marketing name. Some were indeed made by B&S (who also made Vespro, Meister Gerhard Schneider, F. Schmidt, and a bunch of other stencil names on tubas over the years--even VMI). Some were certainly made by Cerveny or at least assembled from parts made by Cerveny. I know mine was. But mine didn't look like this one. Maybe the couple of intevening decades explains that, maybe not.

Rick "suggesting that you judge it on what it does, not on who made it" Denney

[pierso20]

So, I just noticed scroll bars by the pictures and the bell definetely says "Musica" which is amati/cerveny.....right?????

so......then, not B&S and DEFINITELY not worth 3000...hm....

Unless I have NO clue what I'm talking about....which is a possibility.

"Musica" was a marketing name. Some were indeed made by B&S (who also made Vespro, Meister Gerhard Schneider, F. Schmidt, and a bunch of other stencil names on tubas over the years--even VMI). Some were certainly made by Cerveny or at least assembled from parts made by Cerveny. I know mine was. But mine didn't look like this one. Maybe the couple of intevening decades explains that, maybe not.

Rick "suggesting that you judge it on what it does, not on who made it" Denney

excellent. I never knew that!

And yes, always judge on what it does. I've played enough crap tuba's made by reputable brands and good tuba's made from "crap"....

and by the way, marketing gives me a headache.....