bloke's secret to learning scales ( bloke's kid's secret )

[TonyTuba]

I admit, I put up a quick reply. I am a big proponent of learning scales, and other things, by ear. I also want to ad to that by adding the element of reading to tie it together. I teach my beginners without music a lot. When kids come in with Standard of Excellence Book 1, they can play 5 notes. I put the book aside and at the end of the hour, they can play 4 times that, correctly. The book teaches notes by assumed ranges, and does not really tie into how a brass instrument fundamentally works. This isn't the main point, though.

Music Education is/has turned into a task oriented activity. Do this. Do That. I find very little concept teaching going on around here. Learning scales, and slur exercises, and articulation patterns and chords by ear and brain activity are inherently good for the development of the mind. We need to get kids to think more on the basic fundamentals of playing as well as getting them to read music. I do not wish to hijack this thread into the pitfalls of teaching music in the schools, but I agree with those that think learning scales by ear is inherently good for you.

[Rick Denney]

Veering wildly off topic....WHAT? I vocalize words in my head when I'm reading, that is, I hear them in my mind, probably in the same Indiana twang that I would speak them in.

If I had to sound out words in my head as I read them, my reading would consume far more time than it does. I just observed how I read your post, and I would say that the sounds of the words were there in my head, but overlapped, shortened, and summarized to the point that they would unintelligible if made into actual sound. When I type, I do sound the words out, but then that's the point of writing conversationally.

Consider: Our language is written using a phonic alphabet, where the symbols generally means sounds that have to be combined before we recognize them as words. But other languages (notably, Chinese) are written as symbols that have a specific meaning in a specific context, and reading is more a matter of assembling those meanings in their mutual context. Translating them to a foreign language is not a matter of sounding the word in the original language and then choosing the equivalent word (or phrase) in the new language. That's how English gets translated into, say, German. Translating Chinese into English is a matter of assembling the meanings in the mind of the translator, and the writing those meanings down in English. That's why those translations are so often laughable, I suppose. But it's also why Chinese readers can often pick out the meaning of Japanese writing (at least the Japaneses writing that uses Chinese characters), even though the spoken Japanese language is much different in the way it applies sounds to those symbols.

I remember talking with Joe once about how he was reading a particular piece of treble-clef music written in a particular key, and that he was able to play it on tuba using a process he did not understand. He expressed to me that he didn't really want to try and understand it, because doing so might undermine his ability to do it sub-consciously. That, and my descriptions of similar processes in my own experience, are NOT Professor Hill's "Think method", as Ken wrongly accuses. It works only because the vocabulary of such a transposition has been built in, perhaps in unrelated stages that the brain assembles without consciously figuring out how.

I never said that playing scales by memory rather than reading them was the only way to do it. I did refute the notion that doing it that way would necessarily not improve one's ability to subsequently read fragments of those scales. That is as limiting on the variety of learning processes as what Ken calls the "Think method".

Rick "who should probably not be a musician" Denney

[Biggs]

I am always amazed by my peers (i.e. other music majors) who haven't memorized their scales or, perhaps even worse, can't hear their mistakes when playing scales. How did they get so far without this fundamental understanding? In EVERY audition I have been in as a student (plus a few outside the academic world), scales were tested. District Band, State Band, Region Band, Honor Band, High School Band, and all the other stuff that junior high and high school students take so seriously factored in major, some minor, and chromatic scales. Did the music majors in question skip all this stuff?

My secret to learning scales is this: Don't be an idiot. I am always flabbergasted to learn which of my peers did not pass their "proficiencies" - a test of major, natural minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, and chromatic scales as well as major, minor, dominant, and diminished arpeggios required of music majors at my school. How could you possibly fail this? It is not a pop quiz; you have at least one full year to make flashcards, consult a beginning band book, pray for a miracle, or whatever you need to do to prepare. It is not challenging! Grrr....

End rant. I apologize for rambling, but I had to flush out my system for the end of the semester.

Also, Stevie Wonder is the greatest.

Pat

[Charlie Goodman]

I don't practice scales. Or anything, really. I don't see why you need to practice if you already know how to play. I got into college, didn't I?

[sloan]

I am always amazed by my peers (i.e. other music majors) who haven't memorized their scales or, perhaps even worse, can't hear their mistakes when playing scales. How did they get so far without this fundamental understanding? In EVERY audition I have been in as a student (plus a few outside the academic world), scales were tested. District Band, State Band, Region Band, Honor Band, High School Band, and all the other stuff that junior high and high school students take so seriously factored in major, some minor, and chromatic scales. Did the music majors in question skip all this stuff?

Yes, they did.

They were given a free pass by their earlier instructors because they played so well in the ensemble that it was too dangerous to confront their lack of attention to such trivial details. If asked to actually *work* they might quit.

Sadly, for every "honor" band I've seen (my exposure is limited), scales and arpeggios are used for relative seating - but there is no absolute standard below which the applicant is told "please go home - we can't use you".

This is right up there with the students who sight-read the required audition piece.

but it's OK - if you hum a few bars they can fake it. Playing by ear is so much more musical, anyhow.

[MikeMason]

In my little universe,sight reading is very low on the list of needed skills.I can't remember the last time I was required to sight read anything for money.The orchestra sends the music 2 weeks in advance and if it's anything serious,I've been looking at it for months off the Cherry CD.Even our local contractor works hard to mail music in advance.The goal is always the same-sound great on the rehearsals and performances every time,whatever it takes.We've been known to count rests on our fingers behind the stand when needed.Taking the other point of view now,sight reading certainly strengthens just plain reading.If you can't sight read,you probably struggle to execute a part.So,for me,sight reading is not a high priority.Intonation,tone quality,executing my part,being on time with the correct costume,a good attitude,and most of my colleagues and the contractor expect a new dirty joke from me on each outing too...These things keep me at the top of the very small local list...

[KevinMadden]

A little late on the thread, but I have a response I'd like to add to the whole Reading v. By ear debate.

I never learned to effectively play by ear, I always read all my music, and still do. (though I'm trying to change that) While reading all my music has given me a fairly good ability (IMHO) to play what is written on the page, I have issues when what I'm playing sounds different than what is on the page. What I mean is this, I've developed a really keen aural connection to the visual notes. When playing Rochut, Z.B., I have a harder time hearing it down an octave than I do just reading at the written pitches. When I play Eb, if I'm looking at some exercise written in C I have to play without the music, I can't read in C but play in Eb. even Eb Treble clef is slow for me to pick up, despite the fact that I'm fluent in trumpet fingers, its just sounds wrong. I guess the answer that I'm trying to support is that a person needs to learn both, equally. play the scales from memory, but be able to read them too.

[sloan]

In my little universe,sight reading is very low on the list of needed skills.I can't remember the last time I was required to sight read anything for money.

Yes, but...

When you are *testing* someone (at an audition, for a class, or a degree) you don't always test the exact skills required for success in the field (or, what the student was told to study to prepare for the job/test). Instead, you try to test a simple, isolated, easy-to-judge skill that you believe is highly correlated with success at the actual job.

Sadly, too many students "learn to the test", and teachers have been know to "teach to the test". This defeats the whole purpose.

When we "audition" faculty candidates, we take them out to dinner. You would be astonished to know how much information you can gather about someone in a 2-hour dinner (AND how relevant that information is for future performance in the job).

I think that "sight reading" (and to a lesser extent "scales") are tests like this. Yes, you *can* do the job without ever sight-reading anything (just as you can do the job without playing all 12 scales around the circle of 4ths at All-State tempo and articulations). But, if you have to sort 50 players into roughly the correct order of "who will perform best in the ensemble", sight reading and scales are very effective.

Signt reading tells you a lot about the musicianship of the player. At the high school level, testing scales tells you a lot about the students' work ethic. Any idiot who really wants to can learn to play All-State scales in 2 weeks - but of course this is "learning to the test". It's tougher to prepare in advance for sight-reading (but you'll see lots of career advice saying "play everything you can get your hands on - who knows when it might turn up as 'sight reading' at the audition")

I think All-State auditioners should use the bloke test: start up a drum machine, sing the head of a tune and then point to the auditionee and yell "take it".

That would separate the men from the boys.

Studying scales is like studying the Calculus - most jobs don't really need that skill; what they need is the maturity and development demonstrated by having that skill. Plus, the great unwashed masses have the same plaintive cry: "why do I have to know *that*?"

[MikeMason]

Just stating an observation.I certainly jumped through all those hoops along the way.Several of the things you mentioned I participated in but have since let drop off my resume Good times...

[tubafatness]

I thought I'd chime in with the way I learned scales.

When I first picked up the tuba, the main person I looked to in terms of inspiration was my older brother, who was at the time a pretty good tuba player. One day, he brought me a "borrowed" [stolen] copy of the scale and exercise book that the local high school band director used with his freshman band. So, one day, (it was a Sunday, I remember,) I took that book and played out of it for close to 5 hours. I didn't learn the notes-I learned the patterns. And I have more or less had those under my hands ever since. When I learn new scales, I just modify the old patterns, or learn the new patterns. It's all fingers after all, (well, not all; you have to listen, too, but I base my listening on the finger patterns.)

Just my two cents...
Aaron H.

[sungfw]

However, I knew what a major scale was, and I could play a chromatic scale, so I played it for him...in quarter notes at about MM=60. I got the first oboe chair. The guy actually laughed a little when I managed the scale, and said, "I love that trick!"

I switched, after that. If someone asked for a major scale, but didn't specify a key, I always played a Bb scale. I'm not a complete idiot.

ROTFLMAO!

[jbaylies]

Awesome thread! I'm in the process of perfecting all my scales for an audition this Wednesday. So I made flash cards! http://flickr.com/photos/mostlytuba/2503695964/ Click on "All Sizes" to get a bigger picture.