Interesting airline story...

[Arkietuba]

So a while back I posted asking for help locating some flight cases for our university's Wind Enseble trip to Vienna and Salzburg in Austria for the American Celebration of Music.

Well, we ended up not getting any help so we took our school's CC tubas instead of our own with the school's MTS cases that were pretty hefty. Well, we get off the plane in Vienna and too my surprise, my cases has a huge dent in the top (where the latches are) and then I look to the front (bell) and it's open about 1" even though it's latched shut. Luckily the horn was fine.

On the way back, we flew out of Munich to Amsterdam (then to Memphis). We took KLM which is the Dutch version of Northwest Airlines and we took one of the "cityhopper" planes which are kinda small (100 passengers) and we start to take off and......we hear something underneath us fall back to the back of the plane. We kinda joked like "I bet that was one or both of the tubas"...well, we get to Memphis and I get my horn. The case looked like it did before we left (same damage, no more, no less)...but I figured I should look at the horn "just in case". I look at it and it seemed okay...then I picked it up and looked at the bell and it was crushed...like it fell on the bell and it took the full impact. Well, luckily it was the school's horn and I had already played all the concerts in Austria...so it's not a big deal.

I'm just amazed that when people see a big case/instrument that they think it's impervious to damage...lol

[windshieldbug]

I'm just amazed that when people see a big case/instrument that they think it's impervious to damage...

Or they take it as a challenge...

[rocksanddirt]

Drag on the cases/horns. not surprized however.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Well, we ended up not getting any help so we took our school's CC tubas instead of our own with the school's MTS cases that were pretty hefty.

I seem to recall several folks recommend that you use the school instruments...sounds like it's a good thing you did. Congrats on the foresight and not having your Gnagey special damaged.

Reason im doing my senior recital before the band trip to Brazil......plus with me having the only CC (and F) in town....

Abilene's a pretty large place...are you sure have the only C and F tubas in town? Seems unlikely, but I suppose it could be true...just strikes me as strange.

When we go, im going to request to be there as far as I can be during checking.

I worked for Southwest for a little while in Kansas City as a Ramp Agent loading and unloading baggage in the "secure" area (well before 9/11 when regulations were a bit "looser" than they are now). Trust me when I tell you they won't let you past the counter...just make sure your instrument is very well packed...Bloke seems to always have the best advice that, tragically, few listen to regarding packing tubas.

[MartyNeilan]

We took KLM which is the Dutch version of Northwest Airlines

Did you enjoy the cheese?

[Rob]

As far as going as far as you can with your tuba during check-in......you're going to get to the ticket counter and that's about it. Once your tuba case gets checked in it is likely going to ride an elevator to a bag room, get loaded onto a baggage cart, driven around the airport, taken off that cart, go up a belt-loader into the plane, and hopefully not fall a lot during that trip--then it's going to do the reverse when you land.

Having worked at an airport, loaded bags into carts and onto planes, I am scared at the prospect of taking a horn on a trip. I will buy a ticket and let it fly next to me in the plane if I really need to take a good horn along. One thing I do know is that a MTS type molded case, one that isn't nice and square but has rounded edges, is really easy to slip and slide both in the plane, and more importantly while traveling up and down a belt loader to get into a plane. All things being equal, a flight case or a homemade case that's square sided is less likely to slide and fall around.

Keep in mind that most people that work in the airport are not particularly well paid, and couldn't grasp the concept of paying thousands of dollars for something like a tuba. That and those stickers or handwritten words of "fragile" are very often either not noticed or ignored.

Just my 2c, Rob

[Wyvern]

This is a not too cheery post for me as I am flying with my PT-20 to Malta in only 7 weeks. It will be in its hard wooden case. I have been advised to put some sort of ball in the bell to distribute the impact if it falls that end, to pad out inside the case to stop any internal movement and am considering rapping the entire case in bubble-rap to help protect. Any other ideas to safeguard?

[imperialbari]

...then I picked it up and looked at the bell and it was crushed...like it fell on the bell and it took the full impact. Well, luckily it was the school's horn and I had already played all the concerts in Austria...so it's not a big deal.

Is that supposed to be an OK attitude?

If the school has to pay for the repair, there will be less funding for projects of educational value.

If the school cannot pay for the repair, will you, or another student, find it funny to play the damaged instrument?

If the insurance pays for the repair, I guess that you for the sake of fairness would accept, that it had been your own tuba that had been damaged.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre, who has fought to make ends meet in instrument budgets for students at all levels from elementary through college

[brianggilbert]

Oh Boy - It's on now....

[Dean]

I am in agreement with the above poster.


The school could have shelled out the $$$ for 2 flight cases that they could have used for years and years to come. Instead they chose not to, and they will probably spend the same amount to FIX the horns they refused to protect! Seems silly no? Given the silliness of these facts, I can understand the OPs "ha-ha" tone.

[TubaRay]

Oh Boy - It's on now....

Yep!

[MikeMason]

Neptune,with your love of tubas and your apparent resources ,buy yourself one good MW,Anvil,or metal Unitec flight case to fit your largest horn.Get some different size foam inserts to fit the smaller horns as needed.Less than $1k and your done for a lifetime,unless you need 2 horns on a trip.You might also cast around your part of the world for one to rent or borrow.I sold some unitec flight cases to a school recently for their 186's.Seem to be very solid for around 4-5 hundred each(slight guess).As far as the particular college road trip-the best kind of money to waste is Other People's Money

[Wyvern]

Neptune,with your love of tubas and your apparent resources ,buy yourself one good MW,Anvil,or metal Unitec flight case to fit your largest horn.

I will inquire - that sounds a good idea. Unfortunately I don't think there is time before my trip to order such a case.

For my "apparent resources" - circumstances change, so you can't assume that because I have a good selection of tubas, that I necessarily have such a deep pocket now-a-days!

[Arkietuba]

I don't know why I seem to have people attacking me no matter what I post (I know it's only a few people, the rest of you guys/gals are just fine)...it's quite humorous now.

Anyway, No...we didn't have any cheese on our KLM flight. We did have some great crackers actually!

Our trip was primarily financed through loans from local banks as well as donations. Each member of the Wind Ensemble had to pay $750. I don't have the money, neither does my family...so my birthday present from everyone was the $750 (plus the $180 for the expiditied passport). Our department did what they could to ensure that we had the best possible equipment. They paid to have the school's CCs worked on and have them in "top" shape (they're 40 year old Miraphone CCs that have seen better days). They even rented all of the percussion and even a string bass...we tried to get tubas but we couldn't. The flight cases didn't work out either...so we brought the school's CC tubas on the trip.

[Arkietuba]

Our trip was primarily financed through loans from local banks as well as donations. Each member of the Wind Ensemble had to pay $750. I don't have the money, neither does my family...so my birthday present from everyone was the $750 (plus the $180 for the expiditied passport).

BRAVO...except for the band director/administrators irresponsible decisions to subject very good (1960's Mirafone...??) CC tubas - and their newish carrying cases - to nearly certain damage (particularly right after they had just been repaired).

Well, to be fair...we had money to get flight cases but no one on here had any for us to use and no one in Arkansas has one apparently. We used that money to have the horns "fixed" for the trip so we could play on the "best" possible horns in Austria.

Our Music Dept. Chairman is a tuba player and used to teach at E. Carolina (Dr. Jeff Jarvis). He tried to help us out as much as possible but our SGA here hates the music dept. for some reason (at least the instrumental side).

On a brighter note, everyone over there loves music. I was blown away with how many instrumentalists I saw in Vienna and Salzburg. I even saw a tuba player and tried to get a picture but he ran into the opera house before I had the chance. Every audience we had was so welcoming and supportive of us. It was awesome...I want to go back.

I have some pictures from a museum exhibition of old instruments in Vienna. I'll try to post them ASAP.

[euphomate]

I had an EEb tuba shipped from the USA to Australia some time back by Ferguson Music in California. The horn came with a pretty basic gig bag, and I was worried about how much damage would be done by the shipping company and the American Airlines commercial flight it came on. Ferguson double-boxed the horn, filling all spaces with polystyrene buds, and inserted an inflated beach ball in the bell. It arrived in perfect condition, which to be honest surprised me. I expected to have to repair some damage after a trip half way across the world.

[Getzeng50s]

Trust me when I tell you they won't let you past the counter...just make sure your instrument is very well packed...

I have been behind the counter numerous times when traveling with my horn. You just have to show up early, and know exactly who to talk to, and how to talk to them.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I have been behind the counter numerous times when traveling with my horn. You just have to show up early, and know exactly who to talk to, and how to talk to them.

To be sure, I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement. There are always exceptions to any rule. I should have said the policy of the airline I was working for, at the time I was working for them (when restrictions were far less than they are now), was that no customers were allowed in the areas where baggage and freight are loaded/unloaded. I don't recall seeing any "exceptions," but frankly I wasn't paying that much attention to who was around when I was loading or unloading baggage.

I would also like to take just a moment to stand up for the airline employees...very, very few of them are out to damage your property (at least, the ones I worked with weren't). Sometimes there is a great deal of "stuff" to be moved in an unadequate amount of time to do the job gently. Your attention to packing (again, listen to Bloke here...he knows his stuff) is paramount to receiving your property safely on the other end of a flight.

It would be interesting to hear more of the story of how you got "behind the counter" and if it made a difference (in your opinion) in the handling of your instrument...I would guess that with you watching, the employees would be a bit more careful.

[Rick Denney]

Random thoughts:

1. Airlines don't control access to baggage areas any more. The TSA does. And they care not a fig for your concern about your tuba. If you try to follow it beyond their inspection point, you will be barred from doing so.

2. The inflatable ball in the bell moves the stress from bending at the rim (where it is extremely weak) to hoop stress in the throat, which is all tension and where the bell structure is quite strong. And move the valve springs from under the valves to between the valves and the valve caps, so that the valve will be held all the way down during travel.

3. A double-wall cardboard shipping carton is how the manufacturers ship tubas to the U.S. from where they are made. They usually ship the cases separately. (I bet Yamaha is an exception, but than I bet they put the tuba in the case, and the case in a shipping carton with all that padding.) The tuba will be wrapped in a plastic bag, and cradled in foam peanuts within the box with at least four inches of padding on all sides.

4. A tuba in a clear plastic bag will probably fare better, on average, that a tuba in a plastic case. This was something I learned from professional triathletes who travel with bicycles that cost as much as tubas, and that are also fragile. Most of them use big hard cases and deal with the resulting damage. But several clever ones just put them in clear plastic bags, the way Europeans fly with their bicycles. The baggage handlers think a big hard case is strong, and treat it roughly. I don't know anybody with the guts to test this theory, and tubas are not equipped with reasonable carrying handles. But go part way: The baggage handler knows that anything in a cardboard box might be damaged if it is dropped from a significant distance. I bet they will be more careful with a cardboard shipping carton than with a hard case.

5. Shipping cartons can often be obtained from tuba dealers at nominal cost, and certainly MUCH cheaper than the cost of a flight case.

6. An egg in a steel box will break if subjected to enough G forces, or if allowed to even mildly contact the steel wall of the box.

7. Proper insurance is a must.

Rick "who wonders if the motivation behind most band trips has anything to do with what is really good for the students" Denney

[Getzeng50s]

It would be interesting to hear more of the story of how you got "behind the counter" and if it made a difference (in your opinion) in the handling of your instrument...I would guess that with you watching, the employees would be a bit more careful.

The personal relationship that I made with everyone behind the counter, when speaking to managers about the size, and content of the instrument was the best thing I could have done (to be treated well). The last time I flew with my horn, I was given first class upgrades for free round trip due to the cost of the overages and hassle of the situation (the flight personnel liked me and felt bad).

However, they were completely different from the baggage handlers who loaded my horn on the plane. There was no communication (other than a warning tag on the tuba letting them know it was BIG and 76 pounds (HEAVY!)) between the desk and the handlers. So no matter how good the personnel are behind the counter, it’s completely up to the handler weather or not your horn gets damaged (as long as your horn is in proper flight case).