Chuck"waiting for the Vienna horn to go the way of the Dodo and dreading it "Jackson
Chuck,
I don't know whether you have the CD entitled "Vienna horns," which was an answer of sorts to the London horns CD. It has nine Vienna horns with a variety of pieces, everything from Konzertstuck to Titanic, and it is the most marvelous horn sound I've heard, period. I'll give what info I can glean from the CD:
it says ORF 1 which is probably pretty general.
It also says CD 378, LC 11428, copyright 2004, made in Austria, DDD.
Hope that's enough for anyone who is interested. I just plonked it in my computer's CD drive to hear it again.
Edit: and my Mac just ate the CD; it doesn't appear anywhere as an icon, didn't play, and I can't figure out how to get it out because the eject function needs an icon to work. Anyone who knows how to get a mac to spit out a CD it doesn't recognize, please PEM me and tell me how to do that without taking the computer apart.
I cannot see French tuba players returning to the small C tuba, any more than British players to the F. They would just not have the weight, or power in a modern orchestra.
the "ORF1" refers to the main public (as opposed to privately owned) Austrian radio- and TV station (Österreichischer RundFunk), which used to have several chapters. Their radio program features tons of Viennese classic music, a lot of which is getting produced on CD as a spin-off. I never used that service, so can´t tell you any more about it.
(...Aaah, those sweet days up to the early 80´s, when there were exactly THREE TV-stations in Germany. If there was nothing exciting on TV, you actually used the "OFF" button, a totally silly device nowadays)
The following got a little lengthy. Sorry, folks, but I had to.
As to the combination of secondary topic in this thread (local traditions/small vs. huge bore/extinction of particular instruments):
Here in Vorarlberg, we are at the very beginning of a process that might lead to the local extinction of THE TRUE typical mid-European brass instrument, the oval Tenorhorn (of which, as we all know, the oval Bariton simply is a 6/4 version).
It´s just a vicious circle, like raising standard pitch:
- someone thinks it´ll be cool if their instrument (let´s say: a trombone) sounds louder, so they go out and buy a bigger version.
- someone else gets to think "Gee, I had always been able to cut through the trombones. I need a stronger (let´s say: tuba). Next thing you see is the band board members deciding to get larger bore tenorhorns to complement.
- that´s when the bands start to increase their reed sections.
- Final stage: F-tubas are thrown away and replaced by compensating Eb,
3- or 4/4 BBb-tubas are considered kids´ stuff, beginning trombone players get issued a full sized symphonic trombone w/ F-attachment, and former oval tenor players use compensating euphoniums instead.
I think it may have started when bands decided they wanted to play cool stuff for a change and bought band-versions of movie scores to spice up their concerts.
It sounds so much bigger from the cinema´s dolby surround, there´s no way you can make these things work with the typical 35 piece village band.
Quite a few of the better bands around here have started to play euphoniums (compers, of course) rather than ovals. So far they are tasteful enough NOT to use these for traditional alpine repertoire, such as Bohemian polkas or traditional marches. But that applies to individuals that are fanatic enough to do the best for the music they play and don´t look into their wallets when it comes to their hobby.
Why am I writing this ?
It´s because I (amateur) am finding myself being in the process of searching for a BAT, a would-be THIRD professional-level horn in my possession, simply because honking out loud´n low is so much fun, and seems to be required in symphonic band repertoire.
Sometimes I think what such a horn will do is enhance my musical life and increase my success in banding. Other times I think all it´ll do is prevent me from finding other important things in life.
Hans
Melton 46 S
1903 or earlier GLIER Helicon, customized Hermuth MP
2009 WILLSON 6400 RZ5, customized GEWA 52 + Wessex "Chief"
MW HoJo 2011 FA, Wessex "Chief"
tubeast wrote:Why am I writing this ?
It´s because I (amateur) am finding myself being in the process of searching for a BAT, a would-be THIRD professional-level horn in my possession, simply because honking out loud´n low is so much fun, and seems to be required in symphonic band repertoire.
Sometimes I think what such a horn will do is enhance my musical life and increase my success in banding. Other times I think all it´ll do is prevent me from finding other important things in life.
Hans, I am a right one to speak, but having heard the sound you get from your PT-20 with that bucket mouthpiece of yours, you probably do not need to get a BAT to satisfy the band, or director. However, I am sure if you do, you will get infinite pleasure from the resulting tone. To me playing a BAT is not about being louder (I can do loud on my Eb as the band I was playing with today would testify! ), but about a richer tone with much great depth.
Bob1062 wrote:Here's an interesting question- were these used in wind bands?
I believe like the British F tuba the French small C was just an orchestral tuba.
BBb are used in French bands. The once I have played with a band in France, the bass part was transposed into BBb, although still in bass clef (confusing! )
the French C tuba is an instrument pitched a step higher than a euphonium. It was the standard French tuba for many years...I remember a clinic at an TUBA Conference in the 80s (Austin in '86 maybe??) where the clinician, through an interpreter who obviously knew nothing about tubas, was speaking about the then-recent growth of F tuba use in France.
It's been argued that "Bydlo" and many other French orchestral works were written with that instrument in mind. It often had 6, even 7 valves. The classic setup had the 3rd valve lowering the pitch by 2 full steps (same as 2-3 on most instruments).
SAT, MAT...I have no idea where you pulled those up!
Neptune wrote:BBb are used in French bands. The once I have played with a band in France, the bass part was transposed into BBb, although still in bass clef (confusing! )
Eb bass is even more fun! Same notation: bass clef, transposed, so that middle C = 4th harmonic, or sounding 3rd space Eb. Only used in France, Belgium and Holland.
Gaston wrote:I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !
I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.
Hey, finish the limerick...
A tuba in C with 6 valves
Gaston wrote:I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !
I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.
I'm sure you do, and when you post it here -- so we can see it too -- we'll all stand with you!
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -- Pogo (via Walt Kelly)
Gaston wrote:I have never heard of french tuba with 7 valves, or saw it !
I've seen a picture somewhere, I have no idea where, maybe the Bevan book? But, I stand firm in my resolve that I've seen a picture of a French C tuba with 7 valves. Yes, I do. Totally. Absolutely.
I'm sure you do, and when you post it here -- so we can see it too -- we'll all stand with you!
French tuba Similar in appearance and sound to the euphonium. Has 6 or 7 valves. Pitched in C (consequently, the tubing is slighly shorter than the other two instruments). Used as the tuba for symphony orchestras in France from about 1850-1960s. This explains why the "Bydlo" tuba solo in Maurice Ravel's arrangement of Modeste Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition is so high. The tuba range is achieved by use of the 5th, 6th, & 7th valves. French tubists have been professionally using the same tubas as the rest of the world since the late 1960s although students in French conservatories continued using the smaller instruments for a few years after. (This is the only instrument on this lower list which can rightfully be called a tuba)
Interestingly, this is a page by someone named "Loyal Tubist"...hmmmm, I wonder what ever happened to THAT guy??
), but about a richer tone with much great depth.
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