I have a 10-year-old YEP-642 with some fairly significant wear on the pistons, particularly 1 and 2. They're sluggish if I don't drench them in Blue Juice every day (sometimes more than once per day). I had hoped to replace this horn in the near future, but the guy that ran a red light and totaled my pickup decided I needed to use that money to buy a new car. So, it looks like I'll be using this horn for another couple of years at least.
Having read many horror stories about how "well" Yamaha pistons hold up over time, I'm sure others are in a similar situation. What oils do you all use to keep things moving? Thanks.
After having owned 4 yamaha valved brass instruments(621f,822c,822f,321euph),here's what I learned.The valves are monel,a softish alloy that is supposed to "wear in" over time and provide maximum compression.The valves are a little too tight in my opinion on all yamahas.What you are seeing is probably not wear,but oxidation(corrosion).If you will have a repairman lightly buff each valve,they will return to a mirror finish and be happy again.I haven't owned your particular model,but I bet the results will be the same.Try it and see...
Pensacola Symphony
Troy University-adjunct tuba instructor
Yamaha yfb621 with 16’’ bell,with blokepiece symphony
Eastman 6/4 with blokepiece symphony/profundo
I have a Yammy 641 that's about 15 yrs old. The Monel valves are still in good shape. I started using Hetman Light Piston Oil about 4 yrs ago and have been very happy with its performance. There are three different versions of Hetmans available... Light piston oil, Regular piston oil, and Classic piston oil (for worn valves). Here's a link with more info:
Hetman® Synthetic Piston Lubricants provide superior wear and corrosion protection for all types of piston valves. Whether your instrument has Monel, stainless steel, or nickel-plated pistons, these long-lasting, non-gumming lubricants will provide for an action that is smooth, quick and consistent. Three nontoxic viscosity grades are available in 60 ml controlled dropper tip bottles:
1. LIGHT PISTON - Specifically formulated for close tolerance piston valves. PN: H1-LP-60
2. PISTON - Designed for instruments with piston valves having average clearance. PN: H2-P-60.
3. CLASSIC PISTON - Synthetic protection for your classic instrument. Specially formulated oil helps to seal piston valves that exhibit greater than average clearance. Helps prevent valves from sticking. PN: H3-CP-60.
Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ/RF mpc YEP-641S(recently sold), DE mpc (102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank) Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches: "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
Rick F wrote:I have a Yammy 641 that's about 15 yrs old. The Monel valves are still in good shape. I started using Hetman Light Piston Oil about 4 yrs ago and have been very happy with its performance. There are three different versions of Hetmans available... Light piston oil, Regular piston oil, and Classic piston oil (for worn valves). Here's a link with more info:
Hetman® Synthetic Piston Lubricants provide superior wear and corrosion protection for all types of piston valves. Whether your instrument has Monel, stainless steel, or nickel-plated pistons, these long-lasting, non-gumming lubricants will provide for an action that is smooth, quick and consistent. Three nontoxic viscosity grades are available in 60 ml controlled dropper tip bottles:
1. LIGHT PISTON - Specifically formulated for close tolerance piston valves. PN: H1-LP-60
2. PISTON - Designed for instruments with piston valves having average clearance. PN: H2-P-60.
3. CLASSIC PISTON - Synthetic protection for your classic instrument. Specially formulated oil helps to seal piston valves that exhibit greater than average clearance. Helps prevent valves from sticking. PN: H3-CP-60.
I second this suggestion as well as the earlier suggestion of the chem clean. Yammie valves get a bad rap but if they're cleaned and oiled thoroughly and regularly they'll never leak and last darn near forever.
I've had an ultrasonic cleaning done and a great deal of corrosion is also now gone. I assumed that the discoloration I'm still seeing was plating wear of some kind, but perhaps the cleaning didn't get everything and there is some remaining corrosion. I can try having them buffed. I have been planning to try the Hetman oils but thought I'd "fish" for other suggestions before spending the $$ (and possibly adding to my "collection" of little-used lubricants).
MikeMason wrote:What you are seeing is probably not wear,but oxidation(corrosion).If you will have a repairman lightly buff each valve,they will return to a mirror finish and be happy again.
I doubt that it's oxidation. Monel is very corrosion resistant, that's one of it's selling points. I have a newish YEB 321 tuba, and have owned Yamaha euphoniums and trumpets. Valves ARE tight on Yams, and IMO microscopic particles of monel and brass are scrubbed off valves & cylinders and get mixed with valve oil and dirt to form a sludge which binds things up. The tight fit adds to the problem. Adding more Blue Juice is a temporary fix in that it partly rinses the valves and dilutes the gunk for a short while. Periodically remove the valves and scrub them with a light dishwashing detergent and a fingernail brush. Dry thoroughly with a lint-free cloth, and clean out the cylinders with the same cloth wound around one of those rods available at music stores. I have also polished my valves to remove buildup by lapping them in the cylinders with toothpaste, which acts as a gentle metal polish. A pro trumpet player put me on to that. I don't buy these comments I read on Yamaha valves being a problem. In my experience they last for as long as any others and are very airtight, but the finest of contaminants (a hair, cotton thread, sludge) will bind them up, so regular cleaning is a necessity. If that is done, the choice of valve oils is academic.
Bloke just buffed my euph valves last month that were cloudy and gummy feeling.Bloke,please chime in on what you think that cloudy substance was.They are now mirror bright and smooth as silk.
Pensacola Symphony
Troy University-adjunct tuba instructor
Yamaha yfb621 with 16’’ bell,with blokepiece symphony
Eastman 6/4 with blokepiece symphony/profundo
What I've got here isn't a cloudy substance (I do see some of that, but it isn't my complaint at present)--I'm talking about parts of the first and second pistons (mainly the first) that look, to me, like plain yellow brass coming through, not the silver/gray color of the rest of the valve. I would *love* to be wrong about this, and for it to be just some buildup that happens to have that color, and that can be easily eliminated.
I have a 641 and had a hard time with particularly the first and second valves as well. They have always been really tight. The zaja blue worked well, but I think I might try the Hetman oils. My friend has the 642 and the fourth valve was so tight that it never came out. He said that he took it to a repair man who shaved down the inside of the casing a bit to make it fit.
Thanks for all the replies, everyone, and particularly to Bloke for a satisfactory explanation of the origin of the "brown crap." After spending quite a bit of time the last few days reading about how Monel pistons are constructed, I think that explanation is correct, rather than "plating" wear. (Frequent TubeNet readers won't be surprised to learn that they don't teach you much about how instruments are made at "kollij"). I have had the horn cleaned recently so I assumed that wasn't the problem, but I scrubbed out the insides of the valve casings yesterday and found some "gunk" that can't have been helpful. Needless to say, things are working much better now, and will likely be even better after the "brown crap" and "cloudy substance" are gone.
So, it looks like I'll be using this horn for another couple of years at least. 
