Sousaphone purchase recommendation?

[tubaben]

The marching band director at my University is going to buy some new sousaphones. Do you guys have some recommendations for what he should buy? I'm not sure of the budget, so maybe some high and low end options would be helpful.

Thanks!
Ben

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I would recommend first and foremost the Conn 20K, if your school has the budget. Second choice for me would be the King 2350. A bit cheaper that those...the Yamaha YSH-411 isn't bad, but not as durable for the long haul as the first two. Bottom end? Jupiter 594s...not as good, but still acceptable.

Do not...do not...do not purchase fiberglass or "fiberbrass" sousaphones.

Make sure to get hard cases with the horns, and get the section in the habit of always, always, always storing the instruments in them...completely closed...completely closed.

Did I mention to make sure the cases are completely closed?

Best of luck...I hope you enjoy your new sousaphones!!!

[iiipopes]

Do they have to be new? Or would rebuilt/reconditioned souzys be acceptable? The problem is that all new ones have paper thin metal that bends if you look at it. Nothing in the way of a new souzy will really be completely satisfactory; the Conn 20K and the King being the closest. I literally did watch a new Jupiter souzy get dented as it was simply picked up out of its shipping crate (the local university replaced their venerable older Kings with new shiny Jupiters, and after only two seasons they look like hell, and sound worse), or valve problems with Yammys.

A good pre-cyborg King or pre-Macmillian Conn, properly reconditioned, will, with care, last indefinitely.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I'm playing a 1930 38K that only had to have the receiver resoldered and a couple of minor dings fixed. The valves are still original.

Man, I bet that's heavy!

[iiipopes]

I'm playing a 1930 38K that only had to have the receiver resoldered and a couple of minor dings fixed. The valves are still original.

Man, I bet that's heavy!

Yes, indeed. 35 pounds. And it shakes floors. Or it gets so quiet you don't know I'm back there. And all with great intonation, including the 5th partials, which the Conn 20K's are always flat.

If you do go with the Conns, consider having the upper bow of the 1st valve tubing converted to slides so the players can use their left hands to pull on 1+3 and even a little on 1+2 in order to really solidify the intonation, especially on C and low F.

[PWtuba]

The Conn 20K is about as good as it gets.

[ken k]

I checked on Dillon website to see what sousys were available now and Holton has a sousaphone that looks alot like the old Conn 14K(?). Has anyone played this Holton sousy? If it would be that they purchased tooling from Conn since the merger and are now making the old Conn as a Holton, it could be well worth checking out.

The older smaller Conn (again I think it was the 14K but I am not sure) was a great horn , that they no longer make. They do not take as much air as the 20Ks and have a more focused sound. We have two of them at my HS and I have an old Pan American helicon which basically has the same body and valve set.

ken k

[iiipopes]

The older smaller Conn (again I think it was the 14K but I am not sure) was a great horn , that they no longer make. They do not take as much air as the 20Ks and have a more focused sound. We have two of them at my HS and I have an old Pan American helicon which basically has the same body and valve set.

ken k

I absolutely agree concerning the 14K. Unless you're trying to fill up an NCAA I stadium, they are better, including better overall intonation, on most applications. This includes their older cousins, as has been pointed out, the Pan American, and also the Cavalier, which are basically the same instrument.

[Sylvano]

I ordered 3 Conn 36K sousaphones two years ago to refresh the old 36K and 22K horns I had here.
I received King sousas with Conn written on the bell and they suck, my God, they suck.
The older 36K model plays great and so much better than the larger bore short action model.

Did anyone test all the new plastic sousas available?

I personally own a 1935 38K and 1935 26K. My 38K plays better than any 20K I've played but it's so heavy. I'm even considering selling the 38K and getting my own "older" 36K for my shoulder's sake.

[tofu]

--

[rocksanddirt]

I second (fourth?) the recomendation to investigate older used horns and referbish them.

[pulseczar]

I was browsing through the latest Badger State Repair catalog and I am 90% sure I saw refurbished Conn 20ks for a ridiculously low price. Not really sure how good the quality of their refurbishing department is, but for the name and price, it sounds like a sweet deal.

Talk to your local repairmen. They probably have a bunch of leads on good deals.

[chhite]

Until Conn shows their back in the quality-control/assurance game, I'm not going near them. I ordered four silver 20Ks in 2003 while at Ft. Drum and I was not impressed. One bell section had not been cleaned/de-greased prior to plating and was still leaching flux from the collar. The plating was flaking in large chunks. Delivery was rejected, the instrument returned. It came back a few weeks later, still leaching flux. The same bell was dented during shipping, no fault to Conn/UMI.

Another horn had a nasty harmonic ring when any B natural was played. The whole horn felt like it needed a harmonic balancer from a racing V8 to keep it contained. ALL of the horns were almost unworkably flat with second-space C, fingered with first valve. Using one and three was unstable and unusable, so, no solution there.

The metal clips under the valve caps? Didn't last two months and I replaced them all with cork, something I do with all 20Ks I use.

We're going with the Yamaha 411 as soon as we can replace the 20Ks. Bob Tucci has told me of a Boehm and Meinl sousa that is available over here. Haven't played one yet, but I'm interested. Maybe I'm being too picky, but the 20Ks from the 30s-50s were fantastic horns. Go back to that standard and maybe I'll give them another look.

[TUbajohn20J]

I have to disagree. We have 5 lacquered 20K's from 2002. They all are some of the best sousas I've played. great intonation, excellent peddles and false tones, huge throats, and massive tone!!. A band director is usually not going to go with buying used sousaphones, so I say go with new Conn 20K's. Im not a big fan of the new King sousas either, never really have liked King sousas. To me they are very uncomfortable and I feel like I'm being strangled when I play one, after playing Conns. Also do NOT go with Yamaha or Jupiter sousaphones. We have a new Jupiter 4 valve which we pass down to the bottom of the section, and even the worst player hates playing on it. I ve heard so many bad stories about jupiter and yamaha sousas. As others have said if you can find a lot of refurbished 20K's dfinately go with them over new ones, but the new ones are great too. But my refurbished Conn 40K 4 valve from 1921 is THE best sousa I have ever played.

[keegan watson]

I agree with both of the previous posts. The 20K's have a good scale, great sound, and can really crank out the volume when it is necessary. We have 20 at the university, collected over the last 2 1/2 years and the quality is about the same on all of them. These horns can dent extremely easy! I have seen horns dented from applying minimal pressure with the hand to place it in its case. I feel like in an effort to make a very large sousa and being conscious of weight Conn had to make the metal thin. Over all I would say that they are probably the best out there but definitely wear gloves when possible to keep the tarnish to a minimum and handle them like fine glassware because they are easy to damage. Just my $.02.
Cheers,
Keegan

[andrew the tuba player]

i have a refurbished 1941 20k. I'll tell you this is my favorite horn.I use it both on the field and in church. It's big and powerful with great low and high intonantion but can also be nice and melow to. I'd go with the 20K as well.I've heard many horror storys on both the Yammys and the Jupitures from students and directors alike.

[The Jackson]

I play the brass Yamaha sousaphone at school come marching season. I really do like the horn. Intonation is pretty good, nice response and very nice feel to it (unlike those grossly top-heavy King horns). I've never gotten my hands on a Conn sousa, though, so I don't know what to say about those.

[Kayla]

Seems like the overall consensus is the 20k. I haven't personally played this sousaphone but I've been in the presence of them being played and they do sound pretty nice for sousaphones.

What I can help you with is reinforcing the previous comments on the Jupiter 4 valve sousaphone. The high school I went to bought four of these right when they came out, which was my freshman year. So, not only we were fighting the tendencies of the horns in general, there were still kinks to be worked out. The metal is pretty easy to dent, crease (through accidental means), and the valves were mediocre. Too many times my horn had to be sent in for valve work. They were also horrible to tune, always sharp.

So basically it was not worth the extra valve on a sousaphone. Really there's not a overwhelming need for it on the marching field IMO, as you can pull slides and such to get the 3 valve sousa in tune. In my area many times, people start playing tuba on the sousaphone in marching band, and the fourth valve just becomes a nuisance (for that time of learning).

Sorry for the rambling, my distaste for the Jupiter sousaphones kept coming through. Definitely go for the 20k.

[Rick Denney]

The 20K is a 6/4 sousaphone, similar in profile to a Conn 20J tuba. Expect to play the third-partial F 1-3, because it will be flat played open. As with all big tubas, it takes good steering to keep its behavior under control.

The 14K is a 4/4 sousaphone, with better intonation, lighter weight, and a more focused sound. It's a little easier to play.

The King (and what is now the Conn 36K) is also a 4/4 sousaphone, but with an extra-wide bell and a medium bore. It's even easier to play, but the design is aimed at being loud more than pretty. It is more susceptible to being overblown by those who can't control their hormones or who don't have the chops to keep up with their eagerness.

Of these, the 14K is the sousaphone of choice for mortal players, though the 20K might be preferred for strong players.

Taylor Music (http://www.1800usaband.com/htmls/catvie ... egoryID=40) lists all of the above. An econo-overhauled 14K is under three grand, cheaper than a new Jupiter and MUCH cheaper than a new 20K. It's little heavier than many fiberglass sousaphones.

Rick "preferring the 14K to all others any day" Denney

[Tubaing]

My school had three 4 valve Jupiters. I suggest you stay away from those because at first we thought it was cool to have a 4th valve but they weigh SOO MUCH MORE than the 3 valve instruments and soon, everyone was trying to trade for the 3 valves, or using the ugliest 3 valvers in storage instead just because of the weight savings.

The 4 valve Jupiters still only outweigh my 3 valve Conn 26K Eb Sousa by about 4 pounds.