Stupidest repair stories?

[Mojo workin']

knucklehead tuba player like CJH who counts rests for a living

I disagree. Listen to the MET broadcasts. You'll change your mind.

[Kayla]

Sorry to disrupt this little debacle, but I have a quick question. Not really repair again but this thread seems to be pretty active.

Will a regular soak and bathe rid of all the baby powder in a tuba? My cousins thought it would be funny to cake it inside the lead pipe and dump it in the tuba thinking it would blow out.

I know how pesky powder can be, so I was wondering about this.

Thanks in advance for all answers.

[Dan Schultz]

Will a regular soak and bathe rid of all the baby powder in a tuba? My cousins thought it would be funny to cake it inside the lead pipe and dump it in the tuba thinking it would blow out.

Wow! THAT was a dumb stunt! I don't know if current baby powers are talc-based or made from cornstarch. Either way.... it's going to take more than just a soak to get it all out of the horn. You might start with a little soak, but you'll need to get after it with a garden hose and copius amounts of water. Then snake everything out good and hit it with the hose again. You'll probably make a pasty mess once the water is inside the horn, but I suspect normal moisture from playing the horn has already done that.

[Kayla]

Yeah, I haven't done too much to the horn other than cleaning out my mouthpiece which was the worst of it all. I still taste the powder so I imagine it's still somewhere in that big ol' thing.

I'm slightly interested/afraid as to how much they put in there.

[eupher61]

I think some sugar into their gas tank would be appropriate. At least threaten to do it, with a bag of sugar in hand and your cousins at your side.

Let them know that it was dumb. Would they like it if you poured baby powder onto their computer?

[Kayla]

They are pretty lucky I'm a pretty calm person, though my "Hulk" side came out that day.

No worries though, I'm going to clean it out most likely tonight to last me until I send it away to get a tune up.

[Rick Denney]

You can tell your story.

Then others can tell their side of the story as they understand or know it. Just as I've said to you before, I think...

Ain't freedom of speech great!!! It rocks!!!

Not everyone is free to give their opinion. That gentle giant to whom you refer has an employer, and the employer doesn't pay him to entangle his company in a pissing match in which there is no hope of winning. In a pissing match, everyone ends up with piss on their shoes. Suppose it turns out that the complainer wasn't quite as flexible and temperate as he portrays? Does the tech gain anything by posting otherwise? No, that just makes it worse. And everyone expects a professional to be even-tempered. It's hard to be even-tempered when engaging debate with someone who, for all we know, may tell any lie to further his point.

I assure you that I could go into a shop, make an *** of myself, and then tell the story on Tubenet that would convince most people that I'm a complete victim. I could also be completely in the right. But you'll never know. The result demonstrates only language skill. As Jeff MacNelly once wrote in the the old Shoe cartoon, never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

The complainer insists that he's all done and all is good. But then he brings it up every once in a while, which suggests to me that he's still carrying a big chip on his shoulder. All a pissing match would do is increase the size of that chip, and give it importance it may not deserve.

Please understand that maybe it's all as he describes. Maybe not. My recommendation to avoid bringing these things up on Tubenet is that it is impossible for people on Tubenet to actually know the truth. It may be that the complainer has fully persuaded himself of his own rectitude, in which case it isn't even a question of honesty. Even though the truth is elusive and even though the person in commerce has no incentive to engage battle, many who lack discernment may be swayed by the argument with the result that the person in commerce loses business. Maybe fairly, maybe not--but the point is that it is impossible to determine what is fair based on what can be posted on the forum. So, there may be real consequences with no rectification. Freedom of speech demands responsible use, or it will eventually be taken away.

As an aside, when I see one professional slander another professional on a public forum, that utterly undermines everything I read from that person forever more. In the engineering profession, such slanderous language can cost an engineer his license to practice--that's how serious an issue it is among true professionals.

Rick "quite experienced at observing and in some cases arbitrating these issues" Denney

[iiipopes]

(Sigh) Well, praise should be measured so it does not become flattery. Constructive criticism should be tempered so it doesn't become condescending or worse.

Whatever happened to what we were all taught in kindergarten, praise publicly and criticize privately? I am as guilty of that as anybody, yes, and there are times I've regretted firing the first salvo in public.

It's time for this thread to take a break, have a beverage, and get back on track with the stories about pop-riveted seams and bondo valve jobs.

[J.c. Sherman]

A while back, I set up a York 4/4 BBb body (discarding the 3 top-action valves) to accept the 4+1 factory-detachable CC valveset from the owner's Conn 52J (with a resulting York 4/4 CC >OR< Conn 52J CC).

I didn't take it to a rehearsal...I took it to a GIG. (It was a very sweet horn with the only quirk being a flat 5th partial.) The gig was in a town about 100 miles from me, and the owner of the tuba lived in another town "on the way back home from the gig". I took his horn to him, told him that I just used it on a gig and that it performed well for me, and collected my dough from him for the work.

bloke "...so shoot me:"

I figure I can do what I wish with someone's possession that is in my care as long as I am completely responsible for it, do nothing illegal with it, have not been prohibited from any specific use, and am not deceptively denying the owner of the use of that property (ie: "It's not ready yet.") Had the customer been out of the country or otherwise indisposed, I would have felt within my rights to continue to use the tuba until the customer was able to take possession of it. Spending more time playing it, there would have been just as good a chance as not that I might have found something more I could have done to improve that tuba (as, basically, within reasonable limits I was given carte blanc).

Made a "York 52J" myself - what a wonderful combination of playability and sound - everyone should have one! And it could switch back to the Conn body in minutes for smaller gigs.

As for "borrowing" an instrument - I've done this a couple of times when it seamed obvious I'd have to spend time with the instrument to make the modifications requested. Always with the understanding that if a bus ran over it, it was my a$$ on the line, just as it is in the shop itself.

Maybe I should ask... I'll keep that in mind. It's a good point. What's obvious to me might not be to everyone...

J.c.S.

[MaryAnn]

I figure I can do what I wish with someone's possession that is in my care as long as I am completely responsible for it, do nothing illegal with it, have not been prohibited from any specific use, and am not deceptively denying the owner of the use of that property (ie: "It's not ready yet.")

I do have a problem with one of the above....the "have not been prohibited from any specific use" part.

A few years ago I had a nice custom horn for sale; the local horn prof at the U asked if he could playtest it, because he was horn shopping. I let him have it for a week. Then I found out that his entire horn studio had played with it, passed it around, blown their germs into it, probably as well as half their lunch. Well, I didn't specifically deny him the permission to let his entire horn studio mess with my horn, that none of them had any plans of buying, because I had given it to HIM for a play test. If you use the logic of what you said above, he was ok to do this because I had not specifically told him he couldn't do something that I never in my dreams thought he would do.

And no, he never got to borrow, play or anything else of my equipment ever again (and he asked, too, when he sat on his bell and then wanted to borrow mine, promising to treat it very well. Presumably better than he had treated his own bell, but how was I to know that his entire horn studio would not sit on, play, or Lord knows what with my irreplaceable bell?) Of course you are not him, bloke, but perhaps I made my point. Consider yourself shot.

MA

[Rick Denney]

I'm sorta like old Poor Richard:

Never a borrower nor a lender be.

But there are people who I trust to lend stuff to. They are few, and they earned that trust before the lending occurred.

And even in those cases, the purpose of the loan is quite clear from the start, either because of the situation or by explicit agreement.

If I loaned an instrument, even to a pro, for a play-test, I would state that it was for his use only, unless he was one of those trusted few. And one of those trusted few probably got that way because of the respect for other people's property they have already demonstrated.

I have no problem with my repair tech using my instrument in a playing situation, because part of what I want from him is advice. He has insurance to cover any resulting damage, just as my shop had insurance to cover damage that might have occurred during a test drive back in my mecanicking days. But I can see where it can be abused, where the tech, without permission, uses his "play-test" policy to provide himself with instruments in lieu of providing his own. That would be a big problem for me.

Rick "who, with age, has more in common with Poor Richard" Denney

[Tubaing]

Whoa, who the hell brushes their teeth everytime they play? Sounds psycho to me.

I do... for the same reason I oil my valves every time before playing; it's a big purchase and I want it to stay in good condition (and I don't like the aroma of a turkey sandwich in my tuba). Pro cleanings are Expensive!

Besides, you can't brush your lungs and you'll never really get rid of all the germs.

Well, I usually get chips, bread, and other foodstuff stuck in my teeth. Food usually does not go down in my lungs.

[Donn]

Valve oil down the lead pipe helps prevent it from corroding

This one might actually be a bad idea. That oil goes down into the valve section, and could carry stuff from the leadpipe along with it - corrosion salts, grime of whatever sort. Especially if there's a tuning slide between the leadpipe and valves, since the slide grease will get involved.

[Art Hovey]

I tried oil down the pipe for the past year after hearing a highly-respected repair technician suggest it, but have decided it was a big mistake. Gray sludge accumulated in the tubing and began oozing into the pistons, causing them to stick. Cleaning it all out was quite a job. I am not sure that it slowed down the internal corrosion any; that would take much more than a year to discover.

[iiipopes]

You know, it's all about what is reasonable in the circumstances, and it's really no different than a mechanic taking a car for a test drive to see if the repairs were effected properly. Driving it around the shop parking lot may not be sufficient; driving it around the block may or may not be, driving it two states away is definitely excessive, and somewhere in the middle is the appropriate test.

The problem is not necessarily whether the horn is taken for a "test drive" to see if the repairs were effected properly, it's a combination of the attitude of the tech along with the integrity of the shop (for some, it's the same person, obviously) if anything untowards happens on the "test drive."

Using it just because no other horn is available for a gig is probably out of line, but it still depends on the circumstances. For example, I probably wouldn't mind if I took my Besson in for a leak to be soldered up, even if they decided to use it as a substitute hoop for basketball practice. If I had an HB-1 or -2, I'd probably be peeved if anyone but the tech even gave it more than just a short toot right there on the bench in the shop. So it is all relative.

[eupher61]

I'm sorta like old Poor Richard:

Never a borrower nor a lender be.

Rick, Rick, c'mon , you're showing your lack of couthnicity...
That's Shakespeare for Pete's sake, or for Laertes' sake more appropriately. It's Hamlet...

Not to mention "Gilligan's Island".

I'm disappointed in you.

[Dan Schultz]

Anyone who doesn't want my "cooties" on/in their horns should send them TubaTinker: He won't play test your horn...He can't: He doesn't know the fingerings, and he hocked his mouthpiece...and (since that operation a few years ago on his innerds) he doesn't have an cooties.

Glad you 'winked' and 'rolled'! I was beginning to think you had a bad day!

And "YES"... I do give every horn that comes through here a very good 'play test'. Sometimes that means taking the horn to a couple of rehearsals and maybe even a gig. It's amazing how many little things can be discovered by just spending a little time with a horn. This 'play testing' should cost $40-60 and hour but you guys get it for free!

[Dan Schultz]

This is not about diagnosis playing of a horn.

Yeah... I knew what you meant. The idea of hauling someone's 'special' horn around to show off is out of line. The reason why I often actually play a customer's horn for a few days is because there ain't no better way to make those little 'discoveries' that aren't the reason why the horn was in the shop in the first place. It's virtually impossible to spot all potential problems just by playing a few scales, putting the horn in it's case, and calling the customer to come get it. But.... having the opportunity to really experience the horn by playing it in a few rehearsals gives me plenty of time to feel around for things like vibrating solder joints and loose braces.

And yeah.... I do know all of those fingerings. It's just that after 62 years I tend to forget them once in a while!

[Rick Denney]

I'm sorta like old Poor Richard:

Never a borrower nor a lender be.

Rick, Rick, c'mon , you're showing your lack of couthnicity...
That's Shakespeare for Pete's sake, or for Laertes' sake more appropriately. It's Hamlet...

Maybe Ben Franklin knew Shakespeare (or should that be Polonius). But when he, um, borrowed it, at least he had Poor Richard write it in German: Borgen macht sorgen.

But if you don't like Ben's plagiarism, then how about this one, apropos to Tubenet threads not infrequently:

Experience keeps a dear school, yet fools will learn in no other.

or the closely related:

Felix quem faciunt aliena pericula cautum. (Blessed is he who learns caution from the perils of others.)

Rick "thinking the latter might suggest research before making literary allusions when Steve is close to his Internet connection" Denney

[windshieldbug]

I'm sorta like old Poor Richard:
Never a borrower nor a lender be.

Rick, Rick, c'mon , you're showing your lack of couthnicity...
That's Shakespeare for Pete's sake, or for Laertes' sake more appropriately. It's Hamlet...

Actually, in Hamlet, if I'm not mistaken, the line is, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be;"

... so Franklin just sampled it!