Tuba as a jazz instrument?

[Doc]

Like a frothy Franziskaner at breakfast, Uncle Beer is outstanding. I know who he is, so I can affirm he is as good as two Franziskaners at breakfast. Or any time, day or night.

[eupher61]

Like a frothy Franziskaner at breakfast, Uncle Beer is outstanding. I know who he is, so I can affirm he is as good as two Franziskaners at breakfast. Or any time, day or night.

Second (or third or 10 millionth) that opinion.

Uncle Beer certainly has the creds.

[Donn]

Like a frothy Franziskaner at breakfast, Uncle Beer is outstanding.

Is it possible? Is beer a breakfast drink? Can it used effectively to start off a modern, straight-ahead day?

[Doc]

I certainly see the merit in it, don't you?

[SplatterTone]

I guess I'm a little vague on the term "jazz." To me, it's kind of like "classical" music, as in: Do you mean Bach, or do you mean Stravinsky? Note that "La création du monde, ballet for orchestra, Op. 81" by Darius Milhaud is considered "jazz." Anyway, my hero is Vince Giordano.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

Yeah,
Vince is great.
And I attempted to raise the same question about jazz before, what is it?
Peace.
ASG

[Doc]

Arnold,

It's like beer. You know it when you taste it, and you know when it's not. There are countless varieties ranging from huge commercial offerings to that of the homemade variety. Different tastes, textures, colors, feels...etc. And without reasonable education or working knowledge of what it is, how it works, and how it comes to be, it is difficult to describe. Pour up Pilsner Urquell or a Guinness, and you know what it is. Pour up some Charlie Parker or Ella Fitzgerald, and you know what it is. Pour up some Kenny G and...well...maybe not.

Damn! Beer and Kenny G in the same sentence. Part of the same analogy. I must be sick. I need a beer.

Doc

[ArnoldGottlieb]

I must be sick. I need a beer.

Doc

I feel fine. I need a beer.
ASG

ps, really trying to answer scooby's question but beer is more fun

[ken k]

what is jazz?

Yogi Berra's Explanation of Jazz

Interviewer: Can you explain jazz?

Yogi: I can't, but I will. 90% of all jazz is half improvisation

The other half is the part people play while others are playing

something they never played with anyone who played that part. So if you play the

wrong part, its right. If you play the right part, it might be right if

you play it wrong enough. But if you play it too right, it's

wrong.


Interviewer: I don't understand.

Yogi: Anyone who understands jazz knows that you can't understand

it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it.


Interviewer: Do you understand it?

Yogi: No. That's why I can explain it. If I understood it, I wouldn't

know anything about it.

Interviewer: Are there any great jazz player alive today?

Yogi: No. All the great jazz players alive today are dead. Except for

the ones that are still alive. But so many of them are dead, that

the ones that are still alive are dying to be like the ones that are dead.

Interviewer: What is syncopation?

Yogi: That's when the note that you should hear now happens either

before or after you hear it. In jazz, you don't hear notes when

they happen because that would be some other type of music. Other

types of music can be jazz, but only if they're the same as something

different from those other kinds.

Interviewer: Now I really don't understand.

Yogi: I haven't taught you enough for you to not understand jazz

that well.

ken "sorry to take this thread off topic, but I could resist using this old joke" k

[tubajoe]

A few years ago there was a long panel discussion on this exact subject on TubaNews.com. I was fortunate enough to be on that panel, but the article is not up there anymore. I found a draft of my contribution, here is an excerpt (slightly updated), I thought it would be applicable here... good thread, BTW.

(PS - I try to avoid the term "jazzer", while I do play one on TV, I like to think I'm just as at home hokin Tchaik with a section...)

Panel question:
Instruments like the sax and trumpet seem to have established themselves
as the "accepted" jazz solo instruments. There must be a reason for this.
What is your take on this statement, and how do you view the tuba as a solo
instrument in a jazz setting?

Response:
Sax and Trumpet, as instruments, are mainly established because of the (sometimes unfortunate) historical emphasis in jazz. Many mainstream “jazz” musicians are extremely traditional and academic and believe that for something to be real “jazz” it has to fit into a certain historical mold, and that someone has to have already set some precedent beforehand. It seems that be-bop has become the traditional mold for much mainstream jazz, and since that era did not include any tuba luminaries, then the tuba must not belong… right? Wrong! We all know better!!

The tuba is a very young instrument. We are only 2 or 3 generations into the life of the tuba where there are people who can play the thing at a high level. When jazz was in its heyday, there were not any tuba players around that were able or willing to push it in that environment (or that got noticed anyway) ...the way that sax, trumpet, trombone, and piano players did.

As for it being a solo instrument in a jazz situation, I think ANY instrument can be a solo instrument in ANY type of music!!


Panel question:
What are the specific challenges you see tubists facing as jazz
soloists, and what skills must a tubist develop to overcome these
challenges?

Response:
The first challenge is overcoming historical presumption and general public opinion of the tuba. Simply put, most folks (outside of our tubaworld) don’t know how the tuba really can sound!! As tubists we have a responsibility to SHOW the world how great the tuba can sound and what it is capable of (and this includes avoiding the typical schtick etc) and that it is indeed a serious musical instrument with unique and beautiful characteristics, not just fodder for comic strips.

The next challenge is that of jazz traditions (and traditionalists) which are trying to relive a bygone era and choose to exclude the tuba. You can play their tunes if you want, as some of them are nice, but honestly the compulsories in jazz irritate me. To apply the logic of compulsories to other genres shows just how ludicrous it is: Imagine that a rock band MUST play a required amount of Beatles and Zepplin tunes before considering themselves "real" rock musicians.

The final challenge is SONICS. The sound of the tuba takes up lots of space. Some players deal with this by soloing in a very high range where it can be heard over a traditional rhythm section, and often playing it on a much smaller horn. Personally, I think that the tuba’s big, fat, round, heavy, low, consuming, pounding, wonderful, flowing sound is its BEST asset and is the exact and specific thing that makes us unique. It has sonic characteristics that NO other instrument possesses. I feel that playing everything higher and/or on a smaller instrument is too much of a sacrifice for me. I love huge sounds that vibrate your soul. I like to operate in a situation or setting where I can “let the tuba be the tuba”.

Choosing the right instrumentation and players are key. A standard jazz combo (bass, pno, drums) is NOT an ensemble that works for me. The bass gets in the way of the range I like to play in (and the range that I think the tuba sounds best in). When soloing/improvising I like to be in a situation where there is no other bass and I am in control of what happens in that range – so there is nothing to compete with!

It is all about creating something new. As tuba players we are at an EXTRAORDINARY place in time. Most people don’t really know what we can do and I believe that they DO want to find out. The slate is clean!

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I'd like to get something together - like a Handel, Bach, Muddy Waters flamenco type of thing...if I could get that sound, I'd be happy.
-Jimi Hendrix
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Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny.
-Frank Zappa
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Dont play whats there, play whats not there.

Those people who say theres no music but bop are just stupid; it shows how much they dont know.

If anybody wants to keep creating they have to be about change.
-Miles Davis

[Scooby Tuba]

Jazz is what it is to the listener as is classical music.

Is the tuba, in any form, a jazz instrument, in any form, with a leading voice?

Citing examples will be a start. Don't be mired down by genre labeling. If it is jazz to you, then so be it.

As an example, does Vince Giordano play jazz tuba or does he play tuba in a band that plays jazz?

BTW, I have a very good friend that plays with the Nighthawks every monday when he's available. Check them out:

Vince Giordano's Nighthawks,11-piece 20s and 30s style big band at Sofia's Restaurant - Club Cache', downstairs at the Edison Hotel, 221 West 46th Street, between Broadway & 8th Ave., New York, New York 10036. Dinner & Dancing, 3 Sets: 8:00pm - 11:00pm. $15 cover + $15 food/drink minimum. Reservations: 212-719-5799

[Juggernaut]

If I may put in my two cents. The whole essence of jazz is music that everyone can participate and enjoy. That is why there are so many varieties of this one genere. As far as a tuba being a lead instrument, one must not limit themselves to what others opinnion about the tuba. Listener will respect and enjoy a lead tuba if...

1. The tubist pay his dues like everyone else. (Studying the charts, sitting in on sets, and possibly getting ran off the bandstand.)

2. Have the song in your heart and let it come out of the horn. (A quote from you know who)

3. Don't settle trying to sound like a tuba sound like a lead jazz tubist. No EXCUSES.

4. And most important... "No matter what horn is in your hands, the most important thing is to make music."
-Wade Rackley

I think with these points that the whole lead tuba thing works. Also one would find that the journey from jazz novice to a respected jazz musician is a rewarding one. (If you are still not convinced... check out the Michael Foster Project out of Baton Rouge)

So quit crying and start sheadin'.