Rotary Valve Oiling

[TubaCoopa]

Playing a school-owned rotary valve tuba in great condition, some of the keys like to stick. I have looked online and found the thirty step oiling method that uses 4 different oils and steel wool. However, only having about 3 minutes before band class starts (this is not my at-home tuba) I need a quick way to guarantee stick-free keys. Your answering impulse may now be satisfied.

[Dan Schultz]

If you need frequent oiling to keep rotary tuba valves from 'sticking'... it's time to take the horn in for a good bath. There is probably some crud or calcium causing the rotors to bind. More oil doesn't necessarily make rotors work better.

[Rotaryclub]

Hey-great topic for the manual trans guys. I've never been exactly sure what is the best way.

Of course I regularly oil both spindles with a thicker (10W?) oil, and have always been taught to run regular valve oil through the valve section occasionally. I do, however, sometimes get slow or sticky valves and wonder if this may soften the grease from the slides and cause it to migrate to the valves. My problems often come and go so they're hard to figure out.

I've also heard that the moisture from playing is enough to lubricate them. Any experts out there to dispense the wisdom of the correct strategy?

[Dan Schultz]

... I've also heard that the moisture from playing is enough to lubricate them....

That moisture will seal the rotors but won't do much for lubrication. Nothing else should be making contact inside the rotor housing. The only parts of a rotary valve that require lubrication are the spindle bearings on both ends of the rotor and the linkages.

Some folks pour oil down the leadpipe and flood the rotors. I think that tends to slow them down.

This thread is gonna get lots of opinions.

[WakinAZ]

Like Dan said, have your school get it cleaned and adjusted first - no quick fix for years of neglect/cheetos, etc. Then oil regularly (quoting myself to avoid excessive typing):

Check out these articles, they really helped demystify the whole rotary oil thing for me.

http://www.osmun.com/reference/Rot_Maint.htm

http://www.lyricbrass.com/spang/oilrotor.pdf

Are there a lot of ways to do this? Yes. Will anyone fault you for doing it the way these articles suggest? Well, I won't and the authors (Spang and Osmun) won't. Knowing the right places to oil is half the battle.

Eric

[imperialbari]

Other factors than the rotor and its spindles affect the valve action.

With the B&S ball & socket transmission joints the screws may be set too tightly, when you attempt to avoid clicking sounds. I don’t have newer instruments with mini-ball links, but I would guess the same goes for that type of valves. In either type of joints the balls newer should be allowed to dry out.

I don’t like the double-T roller joints, as they need much attention when they get worn. However a real lot of my instruments have these. As I obviously can’t play all samples of my collection for an hour a day, surprises sometimes happen, and situations new to me even after almost 50 years with brasses do occur.

My Forza (a Weltklang stencilled for the Danish importer I. K. Gottfried until around 1970) valve trombone is a medium bore tenor instrument, but as it takes the same mouthpiece as my euph, I often use it for some of the warm-up routines. Suddenly the 3rd rotor wouldn’t return every time the valve was released. By taking the S-link out of the crank, I could tell that the rotor itself was all fine. However the vertical T-joint had restricted motion for about 120° of a full rotation. I suspected corrosion, even if my instruments always are in a dry atmosphere. Oiling provided a fix, which however worked for one day only. I unscrewed the S-arm again, Again a 120° restriction of movement, but not for the same part of the full circle motion. Either old corrosion or another type of dirt apparently had come loose, when I had started using that instrument after a few years of no playing it.

As the instrument is old and is not among my more important players, I didn’t want to have it repaired professionally. What to do for an easy fix? Years ago I had bloke send me a box with 12 containers (8 ounces each) of Blue Juice, so I am in no immediate shortage. (Relatively speaking) I flushed that T-joint with Blue Juice. I didn’t see any ever so small lump of dirt coming out, but something like that must have happened, as the valve works reliably again.

I have two complaints over Blue Juice. First of all the smell or rather the stink. An in hot weather like we recently had it, it is a bit annoying to have to oil 50+ pistons in my larger brasses alone on an almost daily basis plus several rotors a little less frequently. But then this thin oil evaporates quite fast. There only is one valid reason for using Blue Juice: it lets your valves work very smoothly.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Roger Lewis]

Another web site to check out is Jeff Funderburk's from University of Northern Iowa. He has a great collection of maintenance videos available on his site. I applaud Jeff for this and often recommend this as mandatory viewing for my students.

Here's a link: http://www.uni.edu/drfun/repair_video/r ... index.html" target="_blank

Peace.
Roger

[tubatom91]

I have had this problem to, on the Rudy Meinl I used to have and my new miraphone. My problem was that the screw in the center of the rear caps were too tight. I backed off the little screw a quarter turn-half a turn and it worked like a charm. I only had trouble with the Rudy because it did not have the screws just solid caps so I had to play with 2 loose caps. Anyone else have this problem?....if it matters the paddle would go down and stick down.

[MaryAnn]

I don't know why putting lamp oil/Al Cass/Blue Juice down the valve slides works, but it does. Speeds it right up. I suspect that the slide grease gets down in the valve, just through migration. The grease does go "somewhere" over time or we would never have to re-grease, and since the valves are downstream....

Personally for the quickest response I use Blue Juice, and yes it *do* stinketh! If you really, really, REALLY have sticky valves, there is always lighter fluid, but you have to re-oil with something that is more like valve oil, after you clear the problem.

My oboe teacher freaked when I put a small dab of Blue Juice on oboe parts that were responding slowly, but you know what....never had a problem in the several months since. (heh)

MA

[Dan Schultz]

I don't know why putting lamp oil/Al Cass/Blue Juice down the valve slides works, but it does. Speeds it right up...

That lamp oil tends to work like a solvent to thin out whatever 'gunk' is in the rotor.

Also.... to Tubatom91.... you need to make sure your rear bearing caps are seated squarely in the rotor housing. There are a number of things that can cause a rotor to 'stick'. ... DIRT being the main factor. Parts not assembled correctly also make a major difference in how rotors perform. With the rear cap screwed down snugly, give the cap a light 'rap' with a SMALL rawhide or plastic hammer.

It's really amazing how well things work after everything is cleaned up and assembled properly..... with oil only on the spindles and linkage.

[Wyvern]

On the occasions I have had sluggish, or rough moving rotors, I have put the tuba standing on its bell in the bath, pulled out the main tuning slide*, put a funnel in the leg to the valves and with a jug pored hand-hot water containing washing up liquid (like you would clean the dishes) through the valves while moving them. I usually snake the leadpipe at the same time. I pull out all slides and leave to dry overnight, just putting a couple drops of Al-Cass down the leadpipe before I start playing again the next day. It usually works and I have no further problems.

Unless something has happened to damage the linkage, my experience is that dirt inside the valves is what usually causes any problems with rotors.

Try to clean your teeth before playing as bits of food are the usual culprits

*Assuming vertical slide in tuba as are most of mine.

[tubatom91]

to Tubatom91.... you need to make sure your rear bearing caps are seated squarely in the rotor housing. There are a number of things that can cause a rotor to 'stick'. ... DIRT being the main factor. Parts not assembled correctly also make a major difference in how rotors perform. With the rear cap screwed down snugly, give the cap a light 'rap' with a SMALL rawhide or plastic hammer.

It's really amazing how well things work after everything is cleaned up and assembled properly..... with oil only on the spindles and linkage.

I have a superfluous amount of gunk on the rear spindle of my 3rd vlave. is that just because I use it so much or is it just down river from one too many things. I usually over oil my valves. and regret it later. I am sure my horn needs a good scrub down (it was a show/cenvention/demo horn before I bought it).

[Dan Schultz]

...... I have a superfluous amount of gunk on the rear spindle of my 3rd vlave. is that just because I use it so much or is it just down river from one too many things. I usually over oil my valves. and regret it later. I am sure my horn needs a good scrub down (it was a show/cenvention/demo horn before I bought it).

Yeah... you probably need to knock the whole thing down and give it a good cleaning. Make sure that you snake out the leadpipe real good. Usually, the first valve is the one to catch all the flack from food and stuff that goes through the valves. I FLOOD my pistons... but not my rotors. I alternate between five or six horns but the one I use for German music seems to get nastier than the others. Must be the bratwurst and Jagermeister

[rocksanddirt]

the online video recomended above is really great.

took the valves on a horn I bought that were listed as 'stuck' but were only sticky, cleaned them and oiled based on the recommendations and hey presto! no problems.

the dents and what not...another matter.

[MWoj]

Everyone,

Fyi, I tried Bloke's suggestion of pouring some lamp oil down my slide tubes. This worked wonders on my rotary valved horn and it was cheap and easy!

-MWoj.
Birmingham, AL

[imperialbari]

Everyone,

Fyi, I tried Bloke's suggestion of pouring some lamp oil down my slide tubes. This worked wonders on my rotary valved horn and it was cheap and easy!

-MWoj.
Birmingham, AL

Yes, bloke is smart (just ask him)!

But did he tell you that using a Wick with tubas treated that way may end up with wicked results to your lips and to the solderings of the horn?

K

[Dan Schultz]

While a good bath never hurts, since this is a school owned instrument, I wonder if the rotors have ever been honed.

uh-oh