F tuba for (almost) everything

[Tom]

I personally don't think I could use an F tuba for everyting and get the depth, size, and color of sound needed/desired/whatever.

With a BAT Conn around, I suppose you're in a position to try it out though.

If you really wanted to try it, I'd say keep the Alex F and the Conn BAT (just in case this plan doesn't really work out too well) and get yourself a Yamaha 822 F or a Meinl Weston 45SLP or SLZ. I've spent time with the Gronitz F's also, and really liked the PF-125.

[W]

I do agree, but the Gronitz (which I own one) would be a bit light/bright if he has the Alex. And since you have a BAT I would recommend the 822 over all big F tubas. Even though I prefer a good German sound over a Yamaha anyday the YFB-822 is so versatile. The 45slp (which I had for a year) does have a nice big sound, but I still would prefer the strengths the 822 has. But........I love my Gronitz so much

-W

[Lars Trawen]

That's the normal way in the German folk wind music, to use a big BBb together with a F playing in octaves. That creates the special soft and massive bass sound which is the signature for that type of music.
Lars

[Getzeng50s]

The Yamaha F 822 is an amazing horn! ive used it in everything from band, wind ensemble, orchestra, quintet... it does just about anything you need it to!

[Rick Denney]

A) What do you all think of the idea of a small F for the light stuff and big F for band etc, and

B) What do you think would be a good horn to consider?

I've played my Yamaha 621 in concert band for high transcriptions of things like Berlioz. It did not project enough. The only alternative was to go to a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like, which is the not the sound I want.

So, for those sorts of parts, I got a B&S Symphonie F. It certainly has the projection, while retaining a tuba sound. But it doesn't have the depth of sound that is needed in concert band for most other works.

It was pointed out in another thread that wind bands are overloaded with middle voices and don't have enough of the extreme voices available to full orchestras. This tends to make the sound too vanilla without the tonal palette of an orchestra. I agree with this assessment, and for that reason, I think for most works the tuba sound has to be big and subterranian in character. So, for most tuba parts in concert band, BAT is better. It provides the size and presence without having to be loud and projecting. Thus, even in our small band (wind ensemble size), I use the big Holton. I didn't used to hold this view, but the color and tonality of the Holton has converted me.

My bandmate (who is a better player than I) recently acquired a Meinl-Weston 45 SLP F tuba. He brought it to rehearsal a couple of weeks ago, and while we had no trouble playing all the notes on the page, we both agreed that even his smallish King had much more of the depth and bottom needed for band works.

When I bought the B&S, I wanted a lot more projection, but still with an F tuba character. If I wanted an F that would double for a contrabass, especially in large ensembles, the only two instruments on my list would be the Yamaha 822 and the Willson, with the latter being my strong preference.

Rick "who thinks for much band music it's better to be felt more than heard" Denney

[MaryAnn]

I've played my Yamaha 621 in concert band for high transcriptions of things like Berlioz. It did not project enough. The only alternative was to go to a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like, which is the not the sound I want.

So, for those sorts of parts, I got a B&S Symphonie F. It certainly has the projection, while retaining a tuba sound. But it doesn't have the depth of sound that is needed in concert band for most other works.
Rick "who thinks for much band music it's better to be felt more than heard" Denney

Interesting; I got to toot once on Mark Nelson's older B&S F, which is physically quite a bit larger than my MW 182 F. The interesting part is that the larger tuba had a brighter sound. It was also slightly more open on the low C, but I guess either you can play that note on rotaries or you can't.

As for depth of sound I agree with you for ensembles where the tuba supplies all of the basement; maybe a better F player than I am could get the same volume out of an F as I get out of my CC... but still I can hear a timbre difference. Maybe the audience can't. And I haven't sat side-by-side and played my CC against something like a Yam 822 F.

MA

[Rick Denney]

Interesting; I got to toot once on Mark Nelson's older B&S F, which is physically quite a bit larger than my MW 182 F. The interesting part is that the larger tuba had a brighter sound. It was also slightly more open on the low C, but I guess either you can play that note on rotaries or you can't.

As for depth of sound I agree with you for ensembles where the tuba supplies all of the basement; maybe a better F player than I am could get the same volume out of an F as I get out of my CC... but still I can hear a timbre difference. Maybe the audience can't. And I haven't sat side-by-side and played my CC against something like a Yam 822 F.

The old Symphonie F tuba have a lot of color in the sound, but they also carry well out in the hall.

Comparing an 822 F tuba to your 184 CC isn't quite fair. That's one of the biggest F's on the market and one of the smallest CC's. There will be a difference in timbre, but I'll bet not as much related to pitch as to shape.

On the other hand, a full-sized contrabass (i.e., a 186) will have a deeper timbre than even a big F tuba.

But my real point is that any effort to broaden the tonal palette of a wind band requires a tuba sound with much more depth than would be needed, say, in an orchestra. But that tonal expansion is even popular in orchestras. Thus, while I might conceive an F that could keep up with a small contrabass, my current preference would be for a big contrabass.

Rick "looking forward to a picture of MA playing a BAT" Denney

[MaryAnn]

Rick "looking forward to a picture of MA playing a BAT" Denney

I do have a picture of me with my 184....which, the first time I took it to band, the guy on the other end wanted to try it because it looked so big. You should have seen his face when he sat down with it. Pretty funny.

If someone can tell me how to get a picture posted, even if I have to mail it to you first, I'm game. I don't have a web site, just a hard drive.

MA

[Rick Denney]

If someone can tell me how to get a picture posted, even if I have to mail it to you first, I'm game. I don't have a web site, just a hard drive.

Send it to me. I'll park it in an unused corner of my web site for a while, and provide a link.

R "who has a picture of MA making a M-W 182 F look like a 4/4 contrabass" D