private lesson contracts

[The Big Ben]

Richard,

I believe everything in your posts is true, and I'm pulling for you.

3/ If "yes" to all, (since your school choices seem to be in the N.Y. area anyway) why not consider hitting the track for an hour or so each day, doing a couple hundred sit-ups/push-ups daily, etc...and see if they will accept you at West Point? :

Remember, the Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard and Merchant Marines all have academies, too. And they *all* have bands.

Oh, yeah....

If you are considering the military in any way, find a mentor who is *not* connected with the government to help you through the hoops. There may be a teacher on staff who is a vet. In my community, there are many retired officers who would just *love* to make sure a young guy's experience dancing with his Uncle Sam went well. Unfortunatly, the recruiters will bend the truth to get you to sign up, especially today. You need someone on your side.

[MaryAnn]

On the contract stuff, my lesson business is decades gone, but even 30 years ago, I had students pay by the month ahead of time. I had a 24 hour cancellation policy; there wasn't any problem with practicing because I made it really, really clear what practicing was, and they learned how to do it in their lessons. If they showed that they had an ongoing non-practice problem (you can tell, easily, if they learn it in the "lesson become a practice session" and then make no farther progress until the next week) then I gave a warning to the parents as to what was going on, and then dropped them. The only problem I had was a student I dropped for excessive cancellations (the parents were unhappy,) and I decided to include that as part of the up-front discussion. i.e., I explained that I was making my living by giving lessons and if someone cancelled excessively, I would be forced to fill the slot with someone who paid regularly.

Two students I had to drop for non-practice had parents who were making them take music lessons because the parents wished they had learned to play an instrumnet. I suggested that they let the kid do what HE was interested in, and if they wanted to play an instrument, it was not too late.

Even today I don't think I'd use a contract, but a written form that explained my approach and the expectations of the parents and the student. Maybe have it signed by all parties. I always encouraged parents to observe as many lessons as they wished.

These weren't tuba lessons though....I'd think *anybody* taking *tuba* lessons would be at least moderately motivated!

MA

[TubaRay]

These weren't tuba lessons though....I'd think *anybody* taking *tuba* lessons would be at least moderately motivated!
MA

From my experience, this is not always true.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Todd, Richard never did ask for help.

Thanks, James. I didn't notice. I just assumed that when he asked the question

What if it is a single parent, or one who gets paid weekly, and can't afford to cough up 4 lessons worth of money at a time?

it opened up a debate on the topic. Sounds like he at least asked for opinions to me.

But, as I stated earlier, everything I've offered in this particular thread has been met with excuses and changes in the story, so I'll keep my opinions to myself about this one.

MA, you'd be amazed how many middle school and high school aged students sign up for tuba/euphonium/trombone lessons that don't give a fig. As I said, in my experience teaching low brass students it's been between 25-50% consistently. You do what you can with them, smile, and take their checks.

But have a contract.....trust me.....

That's what I love about you, James. You talk as if you have such a great amount of experience when you can't possibly have much. Trust you? Trust is earned through experience...your post history on this forum speaks for itself.

[lgb&dtuba]

...I think the guy with the lederhosen (a couple of posts earlier) was sorta (maybe not exactly) suggesting the same thing. Your family will, likely, insist on you going to college because you represent "hope" to them. However, your ability to help support the family (after high school graduation) seems to me to be one of the best sources of real hope for the time being...and those who enter college as freshmen in their mid-late 20's tend to be MUCH more serious students.

Close enough.

Back to the original question.

My daughter took piano lessons from the time she was 5 until 18. She had the same teacher the whole time. As I recall we paid by the lesson at the beginning of each lesson (teacher's choice) and it was never a problem for either the teacher or us.

As a parent I might be willing to pay a month in advance for music lessons, but certainly not any longer period of time. Too much can happen leading to someone getting screwed over.

Let's say I've paid 3 months up front. A month into that period we want to withdraw for some reason. The reason doesn't matter. Getting a refund for the unused lessons is likely to be problematic. Most music teachers would have already spent the money. It's not likely they're rolling in the stuff if they are teaching young kids. Or the teacher has some reason for not completing the lessons. Make up your own reasons. If the teacher has quit giving lessons altogether (new job, moving, going back to school, whatever) then there could be a fair number of people wanting their money returned. The more who do, the more money the teacher will have to come up with and the less likelihood that they can.

Frankly, I'd consider it too big a risk to deal with any teacher who wanted too big an up front financial commitment. It's too one sided. I, as the paying parent have assumed all the risk in this scenario. With little recourse if something goes wrong.

Maybe a symphony musician who wants a small, very talented, elite group of students can justify a larger up front financial comittment to weed out some of the applicants. And to make a cushion to afford to take on a very talented kid of no means. But, a grad student or such teaching middle school kids as part of a band program? I don't think so.

[pierso20]

...I think the guy with the lederhosen (a couple of posts earlier) was sorta (maybe not exactly) suggesting the same thing. Your family will, likely, insist on you going to college because you represent "hope" to them. However, your ability to help support the family (after high school graduation) seems to me to be one of the best sources of real hope for the time being...and those who enter college as freshmen in their mid-late 20's tend to be MUCH more serious students.

Close enough.

Back to the original question.

My daughter took piano lessons from the time she was 5 until 18. She had the same teacher the whole time. As I recall we paid by the lesson at the beginning of each lesson (teacher's choice) and it was never a problem for either the teacher or us.

As a parent I might be willing to pay a month in advance for music lessons, but certainly not any longer period of time. Too much can happen leading to someone getting screwed over.

Let's say I've paid 3 months up front. A month into that period we want to withdraw for some reason. The reason doesn't matter. Getting a refund for the unused lessons is likely to be problematic. Most music teachers would have already spent the money. It's not likely they're rolling in the stuff if they are teaching young kids. Or the teacher has some reason for not completing the lessons. Make up your own reasons. If the teacher has quit giving lessons altogether (new job, moving, going back to school, whatever) then there could be a fair number of people wanting their money returned. The more who do, the more money the teacher will have to come up with and the less likelihood that they can.

Frankly, I'd consider it too big a risk to deal with any teacher who wanted too big an up front financial commitment. It's too one sided. I, as the paying parent have assumed all the risk in this scenario. With little recourse if something goes wrong.

Maybe a symphony musician who wants a small, very talented, elite group of students can justify a larger up front financial comittment to weed out some of the applicants. And to make a cushion to afford to take on a very talented kid of no means. But, a grad student or such teaching middle school kids as part of a band program? I don't think so.

my thoughts exactly.

[Rick Denney]

Basically, I am trying to have something that is short and sweet and helps me make sure I get paid.

As others have said, this is not a reasonable expectation for a contract. A contract doesn't write checks. It just establishes expectations, and maybe gives you some recourse if those expectations are not met. No contract is of any value at all unless someone is willing to go to court. You still have to look people in the eye and determine how much you trust them.

Bloke is right: If most parents can afford Starbucks and payments on a $30,000 pickup truck (or the $40,000 bass boat they haul with it), they can pay for a semester's worth of lessons up front.

He is also right that you should have enough of a contract to establish expectations for what happens in the case of problems. Those situations might well end up in court. If the student falls on his pencil or trips on your front stairs, expect to be sued. Even if the parents don't sue you, their insurance company might. Make sure you insurance covers such eventualities, even in the commercial setting of offering lessons, because you cannot contract away your liability for negligent acts, such as forgetting (or not knowing) about the loose stair tread, etc.

And always provide yourself, in writing and signed by all parties (particularly the parents of minors), the ability to terminate the lessons at any time for any reason whatsoever. Make it fair--reminburse the parents for unused lessons less a reasonable handling fee--or it might get overturned in court. In small claims court, the clear establishment of good-faith expectations usually carries the day, in my non-professional experience. If you can terminate the lessons for any reason, then you don't have to explain what that reason is, or prove it in court.

So, liability indemnification and termination are the real reasons for a contract because those are the most likely to end up in court, even if you also have payment terms in there. But do not enter into a contract with someone who you would make you uncomfortable without a contract. The contract won't keep you warm at night, and it makes a lousy pillow.

Rick "who worries most about successors and assigns, who often look on the misfortunes of their relatives as opportunities to enrich themselves" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Let's say I've paid 3 months up front. A month into that period we want to withdraw for some reason. The reason doesn't matter. Getting a refund for the unused lessons is likely to be problematic. Most music teachers would have already spent the money.

If a teacher must look a student's parents in the eye to determine if they can be trusted, then they must also look the teacher in the eye.

I have rented houses from landlords who I didn't trust. Yet, I paid a full month's rent in advance, plus a security deposit, in full knowledge that they would probably try to screw me out of that deposit (two years later) by claiming faults with the property upon being returned to them. That led me to protect myself by making sure I could document the fact that there were no faults, which had exactly the effect the landlord wanted.

Remember that we are talking about a professional teacher, and the expectation of professional conduct is there. If the teacher looks like a college kid, acts like a college kid, and otherwise demonstrates any lack of professionalism at all, nobody will want to pay them anything in advance. A professional who looks and acts like a professional will much more easily gain that trust. Nobody with whom I've ever had a lesson ever gave me the impression that they would be unable to return a lesson fee paid in advance (of course, I've known my teachers well enough that trust had already been established both ways so that it wasn't an issue--nobody was a college student or school kid in those relationships).

And with anyone I didn't trust, I would want to document delivery, contract or no. Since one of the things that (should) worry teachers is liability, I would want some means of documenting what actually happens in the lesson. That could be as simple as the parent having coffee with the spouse of the teacher during the lesson, or holding the lesson in a practice room that has a window into a public area.

Given the expectation that teachers are professionals and the expectations that students are not (just as a landlord is expected to behave as a professional though the renter is not), payment in advance is a reasonable expectation consistent with good faith. How much advance payment is a matter of negotiation to find a result that is acceptable to all parties.

Rick "thinking that people who act like professionals stand a better chance of being treated like professionals" Denney

[Mark]

Organizations like the Music Teachers National Association (MTNA, http://www.mtna.org) may have example contracts that you can download. Why reinvent the wheel?

[Chris Smith]

Chris, sometimes I am right, so I post and I post to ask stuff as well.

Todd, Richard never did ask for help. Growing up I was poor, and my parents knew nothing about money management is why we were poor. I knew people that made less a year than us who went to private school and had nicer cars (plus their parents didnt blow it on tobacco).

But have a contract.....trust me.....

If you make posts to ask questions why don't you listen to the authors advice?

[Uncle Buck]

I've been out of the private lesson business for a little over a decade.

If I were to ever get back (don't plan to), one thing I definitely would do is buy one of those cheap pocket-sized digital recorders that are sold at office supply stores, and keep an audio recording of every lesson.

Of course, it would have to be in writing, up front and agreed to by the student and parents, that those recordings would be made and preserved.

This would protect both the teacher and the student. In today's world, I just don't think I would make a practice of spending significant amounts of time alone in a small room with a minor without that safeguard. (I was about to write "protection" instead of "safeguard," but it just didn't sound right.)

As an added bonus, those recordings might even have some pedagogical value.

[Biggs]

I got jipped.

The word is gypped, and it is an ethnic slur that is not appropriate for use in this or any other setting.

[TubaRay]

I got jipped.

The word is gypped, and it is an ethnic slur that is not appropriate for use in this or any other setting.

Really? I never knew that. I'm not joking. I'll have to look that one up. I just thought it was Southern slang.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I'm sorry...what ethnicity are gypsies?

[The Jackson]

I don't check here too often, but didn't someone involved in this conversation say they were done posting here?

Things change and people change, right? People make mistakes (That's a pretty redundant statement, though).

[Biggs]

I'm sorry...what ethnicity are gypsies?

As a jumping-off point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people" target="_blank

For the record, I am not particularly offended by the term since I maintain no cultural affiliation with my own several-generations-removed Roma roots and am even guilty of having used "gyp" on occasion. But I have tried to kick the habit and encourage others to do the same.

[The Big Ben]

I'm sorry...what ethnicity are gypsies?

Gypsies are Romany. They are from the area roughly near Romania and Bulgaria.

At least in my area (PNW), the Gypsies are involved with the used car business and have the reputation (rightly or wrongly) of not being particularly honest businessmen.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Thanks for the information. I had no idea, either, that the term is considered perjorative by some. It is used so frequently in everyday life in the auto parts business that it struck me bizarre that someone would call it an ethnic slur. Interestingly, even in this (somewhat lowest-common-denominator) business, "Jewed" is definitely not said, and for good reason.

One of the things I really like about this site is you never know what you might learn.

[jeopardymaster]

Welshed? Now that's a fightin' word in this house. Some of my folks still take a leek on St. David's Day -- and wear it proudly.

I thought the Gypsies were originally from farther East - the Caucasus or even somewhere in south-central Asia. The Nazis were especially harsh on them - killed millions. So I'd propose that they don't deserve any "piling on."

[Mark]

Back on topic: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mu ... 2+contract