Why did the ophicleide go out of fashion?

[Alex C]

From the above referenced site explaining the weakness of ophicleids:

"The Ophicleide belongs to the group of bow horns with hatches..... The big hatch pads started to leak and resulted in a grubby intonation that finally lead to the downgrade of the instrument within orchestras."

So by definition an Ophicleide has pads (hatches). Well, let's cut to the core, the reason the ophicleide has faded into (well deserved) oblivion is that, as a musical instrument it falls far short of modern-day string standards.

On the other hand, the modern tuba far exceed modern-day string standards.

[windshieldbug]

Why did the ophicleide go out of fashion?

Why did the keyed bugle go out of fashion? Why did keyed trumpets go out of fashion? ...

[Donn]

Why did the ophicleide go out of fashion?

Why did the keyed bugle go out of fashion? Why did keyed trumpets go out of fashion? ...

Limitations of 19th century engineering and manufacturing?

[OldsRecording]

From the above referenced site explaining the weakness of ophicleids:

"The Ophicleide belongs to the group of bow horns with hatches..... The big hatch pads started to leak and resulted in a grubby intonation that finally lead to the downgrade of the instrument within orchestras."

So by definition an Ophicleide has pads (hatches). Well, let's cut to the core, the reason the ophicleide has faded into (well deserved) oblivion is that, as a musical instrument it falls far short of modern-day string standards.

On the other hand, the modern tuba far exceed modern-day string standards.

Don't count your ophicleides until they're hatched...

[kingconn]

Some players advocated playing both tuba and ophicleide. Some keyed bugles were made with a switch valve. So the technology certainly overlapped. Go listen to some of the sound clips on Nick Byrne's page. In-freeckin-credable! If you've ever played ophicleide you'll know that the left hand does alot of the work, most of the right hand keys are only used in the first octave. I'm convinced thats why the Viennese valve system came to be.

[PolkaNoble]

I wish I was smart enough to come up with stuff like this. The Author, Brian Holmes, is a Physicist and a Hornist. More samples of his work. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... abbage.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

Quote
I recently noticed that various people chose to debase the intellectual level of the hornlist by discussing farting. Not only was I appalled and disgusted, but I was extremely anxious to contribute. Then appeared a closely related musical topic, the Ophicleide. So I offer a brief history of this instrument.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Ophicleide

The Ophicleide, like mortal sin,
Was fostered by the serpent.
Its pitch was vague; its tone was din;
Its timbre, rude and burpant.

Composers, in a secret vote,
Declared its sound non grata;
And that's why Wagner never wrote
An Ophicleide Sonata.

Thus spurned, it soon became defunct,
To gross neglect succumbing;
A few were pawned, but most were junked
Or used for indoor plumbing.

And so this ill wind, badly blown,
Has now completely vanished:
I nominate the saxophone
To be the next one banished.

Farewell, offensive Ophicleide,
Your epitaph is chiseled:
"I died of ophicleidicide:
I tried, alas, but fizzled!"

Gotta go,
Cabbage

Unquote

[jobriant]

... If you've ever played ophicleide you'll know that the left hand does alot of the work, most of the right hand keys are only used in the first octave. I'm convinced thats why the Viennese valve system came to be.

True about the left hand doing all the work. But I don't believe that this led to the Viennese Valve system; rather, I believe it led to the development of the complex mechanism that allows saxophone fingerings to (more or less) make sense. By that I mean that as one raises or lowers fingers in order, one goes up or down the scale. In order to accomplish this, the saxophone's key rods and linkages are pretty complex. The Ophicleide's mechanisms are extremely simple -- but when going up a scale, the player uses fingers in a very strange order. On a C Ophicleide, a chromatic scale in the lowest octave has the following fingerings:

Code: L=Left hand, R=Right Hand, T=Thumb, 2,3,4,5 + the four fingers from pointer finger through little finger

B --- R1 only
C --- Open
C# --- L3
D --- L3+LT
D# --- L3+LT+L4
E --- L3+LT+L4+RT
F --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5
F# --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5
G --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5+R4
G# --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5+R4 (but R4 is on a different key on a 10- or 11-key instrument)
A --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5+R4+R3
A# --- L3+LT+L4+RT+R5+R4+R3+R2
B --- R1 only
C --- Open (2nd Partial of harmonic series)

For the next octave (2nd partial of harmonic series), use those fingerings up to F#, but G is open. Then:
G# --- L3
A --- L3+LT
A# --- L3+LT+L4
B --- L3+LT+L4+RT -- OR -- R1 only
C --- Open (3rd Partial of harmonic series)

As the partials get closer and closer, there are fewer keyed notes between the open notes....

etc.

Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

[windshieldbug]

What with the departure of the ophicleide and all, has anyone played Symphonie Fantastique with a bass tuba and baritone saxophone (I think a smaller tuba would work better with a bari sax)?

A smoother bari sax setup might work well, and what's the lowest note in the piece? C?

I performed Symphonie Fantastique using ophicleides with Jay Krush (of the Chestnut Brass Company), but to just give people an idea of the sound during demos, I've used a euphonium mouthpiece in the neck of a barry sax.

The fingering is heavenly! (and the sound ain't that bad, either)

[Donn]

but to just give people an idea of the sound during demos, I've used a euphonium mouthpiece in the neck of a barry sax.

The fingering is heavenly! (and the sound ain't that bad, either)

I went and tried this on my bass sax. The sound is interesting - on some notes. Lower half of the lower register, specifically. The notes at the top of the register leave too much of the horn open to develop much of a tone, and I think the bore is too large to really sing in the upper register. A sarrusophone, or some of the saxophone family contrabass stuff Eppelsheim is making might work a lot better.

[J.c. Sherman]

I'm always surprised by the assumption that the tuba is "Better" than the ophicleide, and that the Tuba was an improvement. There seems to be a bias against it for so many... It always surprises me. This is often accompanied by the presumption that all instrumentalists in the 19th century - especially keyed brass performers - sucked.

There are two things which contributed 99% to the "death" of the Ophicleide. But first, you must understand one thing - they are DIFFERENT instruments. The tuba didn't "replace" the ophicleide, so much as supplant it. The tuba did eventually fill a spot in the orchestra created by the ophicleide as bass of the brass section. The ophicleide served well in that capacity, but in a blending manner, not a supportive one. Some composers never favored the change; Berlioz never used tuba without an ophicleide as well; Verdi hated the tuba because it didn't blend with the bones.

But the two real reasons it's gone? Economics and Marketing.

Tubas and Euphoniums are much less expensive to make. There are more parts which don't require the same level of skill to manufacture. They are more durable, and don't need adjustment as often (ophicleides are very delicate – the same dent in a tuba vs. an ophicleide may be unnoticeable to the tubist, and absolutely render the ophicleide unplayable).

Second - You're a manufacturer and your profit on a euphonium and a tuba are much greater than on the ophicleide... what do you do? Tool up. Sponsor contests and give the winning ophicleidists euphoniums and tubas. Market to the higher profit-margin instruments strengths, and to the players and composers testosterone. Louder! Stronger! Lower!

How many people went to school to major in ophicleide recently? Spent their career on the keyed bugle (also more expensive to make and maintain than a cornet)? Spent 4 hours a day practicing it? Which of you REALLY knows the instrument?

One. Nick Byrne. Maybe. And he is incredible, and the instrument is as beautiful as any brass instrument I’ve heard.

Think Serpent sucked? Listen to Doug Yeo's CD. While it doesn't fit the idea of identical tone quality note to note, he makes it sound beautiful, musical, and above all, perfect in its context. Remember, the BORG idea of tone quality is a fairly recent phenomenon...
So no – the ophicleide isn’t inferior. It’s a different instrument. It blends with nearly everything. It is capable, despite what some think, of incredible power. It can support a modern orchestra – scored properly (Verdi’s requiem, for instance). It can cut. It can support woodwinds very well. It’s a beautiful solo voice. It can trill anything! It has an immense range, and huge tonal palette. It is its own beast, unlike anything else. In my personal view, a perfect world would’ve let it live, alongside the trombones and tuba. Alas, the economics and the timing of the valve’s invention as well as the tubas, and human greed and insecurity lead to its dismissal. It certainly didn’t earn it.
Oh… and the Ophicleide is equally as in-tune as its player. If you’re out of tune on it, your instrument may suck (there’s a lot of bad instruments out there) or be out of adjustment. Or you haven’t spent your career learning to play an ophicleide in tune.

FWIW

J.c.S. (if you haven’t guessed, and ophicleidist)

[OldsRecording]

I have a feeling that Adolfe Sax had a lot to do with the death of the ophicleide as well.

[J.c. Sherman]

He certainly did his best His father, interestingly, made some phenomenal, simple, elegant and incredibly well made keyed brass.

J.c.S.

[kingconn]

The ophicleide is really a tenor instrument which has the capability of playing in the bass range. It would be like trying to play tuba parts on a euphonium using a
Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. Played in the tenor range it is a beautiful and facile instrument. In the bass range, not so much.

[eupher61]

but, there were different sizes of ophecleide too, right???

[iiipopes]

Yes, but the most common were the C and the Bb.

[J.c. Sherman]

Again, I must disagree. The Ophicleide has a rock solid range below or tied with most bass trombones of the time, and below the third trombones of the era in France. Rock solid.

J.c.S.

[iiipopes]

Here's a direct answer to the question titling this thread, out of the article about Hughes posted above:

"The euphonium was invented in the 1830s. It became popular some time later, but from the start it was easier to play and simpler and cheaper to manufacture. The makers ensured that the euphonium usurped the ophicleide's position as the bass-baritone instrument in brass bands by contriving one of the neatest tricks of the 19th century. At brass band contests it was common to single out the best individual player of the day (irrespective of what instrument he performed on) and award him an elaborate prize - a sort of "man of the match" award. From the mid-century the winners of these awards were, with uncanny frequency, ophicleide players. Their prize was always a brand new euphonium. By about 1870 just about every good ophicleide player had "won" a euphonium."

[jobriant]

At brass band contests it was common to single out the best individual player of the day (irrespective of what instrument he performed on) and award him an elaborate prize - a sort of "man of the match" award. From the mid-century the winners of these awards were, with uncanny frequency, ophicleide players. Their prize was always a brand new euphonium. By about 1870 just about every good ophicleide player had "won" a euphonium."

The above would explain, in part, the Ophicleide going out of fashion in Brass Bands. But these competitions were, in that era, mostly in the British Isles. I'd think that this would have had little effect on use of the Ophicleide out side of Brass Bands and little effect outside Great Britain. But I can't say for sure, 'cuz I wasn't there....

Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

[J.c. Sherman]

Similar motives with different execution were employed in other countries. The "ease of playing" the euphonium and tuba were for the novice... just as Sax is "easier" than flute or oboe; but each are equally hard to master.

The low cost of manufacture and the greater potential profits were the same around the world (USA included).

J.c.S.

[Wyvern]

Today Sam Hughes's ophicleide rests in a glass case in Cyfarthfa Castle Museum. It is known throughout the world as one of the best surviving examples of its type. In the quest for authenticity, musicians are now learning to play the ophicleide again and clapped-out specimens are being lovingly restored. Hughes' instrument plays as beautifully today as if the master had put it down just an hour ago.

http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/reso ... hughes.php" target="_blank

I would recommend a visit to the Cyfarthfa Castle Museum if you should be near Merthyr Tydfil in South Wales.