Why did the ophicleide go out of fashion?

[J.c. Sherman]

I'm always surprised by the assumption that the tuba is "Better" than the ophicleide, and that the Tuba was an improvement. There seems to be a bias against it for so many... It always surprises me. This is often accompanied by the presumption that all instrumentalists in the 19th century - especially keyed brass performers - sucked.

There are two things which contributed 99% to the "death" of the Ophicleide. But first, you must understand one thing - they are DIFFERENT instruments. The tuba didn't "replace" the ophicleide, so much as supplant it. The tuba did eventually fill a spot in the orchestra created by the ophicleide as bass of the brass section. The ophicleide served well in that capacity, but in a blending manner, not a supportive one. Some composers never favored the change; Berlioz never used tuba without an ophicleide as well; Verdi hated the tuba because it didn't blend with the bones.

But the two real reasons it's gone? Economics and Marketing.

Tubas and Euphoniums are much less expensive to make. There are more parts which don't require the same level of skill to manufacture. They are more durable, and don't need adjustment as often (ophicleides are very delicate – the same dent in a tuba vs. an ophicleide may be unnoticeable to the tubist, and absolutely render the ophicleide unplayable).

Second - You're a manufacturer and your profit on a euphonium and a tuba are much greater than on the ophicleide... what do you do? Tool up. Sponsor contests and give the winning ophicleidists euphoniums and tubas. Market to the higher profit-margin instruments strengths, and to the players and composers testosterone. Louder! Stronger! Lower!

How many people went to school to major in ophicleide recently? Spent their career on the keyed bugle (also more expensive to make and maintain than a cornet)? Spent 4 hours a day practicing it? Which of you REALLY knows the instrument?

One. Nick Byrne. Maybe. And he is incredible, and the instrument is as beautiful as any brass instrument I’ve heard.

Think Serpent sucked? Listen to Doug Yeo's CD. While it doesn't fit the idea of identical tone quality note to note, he makes it sound beautiful, musical, and above all, perfect in its context. Remember, the BORG idea of tone quality is a fairly recent phenomenon...
So no – the ophicleide isn’t inferior. It’s a different instrument. It blends with nearly everything. It is capable, despite what some think, of incredible power. It can support a modern orchestra – scored properly (Verdi’s requiem, for instance). It can cut. It can support woodwinds very well. It’s a beautiful solo voice. It can trill anything! It has an immense range, and huge tonal palette. It is its own beast, unlike anything else. In my personal view, a perfect world would’ve let it live, alongside the trombones and tuba. Alas, the economics and the timing of the valve’s invention as well as the tubas, and human greed and insecurity lead to its dismissal. It certainly didn’t earn it.
Oh… and the Ophicleide is equally as in-tune as its player. If you’re out of tune on it, your instrument may suck (there’s a lot of bad instruments out there) or be out of adjustment. Or you haven’t spent your career learning to play an ophicleide in tune.

FWIW

J.c.S. (if you haven’t guessed, and ophicleidist)

[OldsRecording]

I have a feeling that Adolfe Sax had a lot to do with the death of the ophicleide as well.

[J.c. Sherman]

He certainly did his best His father, interestingly, made some phenomenal, simple, elegant and incredibly well made keyed brass.

J.c.S.

[kingconn]

The ophicleide is really a tenor instrument which has the capability of playing in the bass range. It would be like trying to play tuba parts on a euphonium using a
Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. Played in the tenor range it is a beautiful and facile instrument. In the bass range, not so much.

[eupher61]

but, there were different sizes of ophecleide too, right???

[iiipopes]

Yes, but the most common were the C and the Bb.

[J.c. Sherman]

Again, I must disagree. The Ophicleide has a rock solid range below or tied with most bass trombones of the time, and below the third trombones of the era in France. Rock solid.

J.c.S.

[iiipopes]

Here's a direct answer to the question titling this thread, out of the article about Hughes posted above:

"The euphonium was invented in the 1830s. It became popular some time later, but from the start it was easier to play and simpler and cheaper to manufacture. The makers ensured that the euphonium usurped the ophicleide's position as the bass-baritone instrument in brass bands by contriving one of the neatest tricks of the 19th century. At brass band contests it was common to single out the best individual player of the day (irrespective of what instrument he performed on) and award him an elaborate prize - a sort of "man of the match" award. From the mid-century the winners of these awards were, with uncanny frequency, ophicleide players. Their prize was always a brand new euphonium. By about 1870 just about every good ophicleide player had "won" a euphonium."

[jobriant]

At brass band contests it was common to single out the best individual player of the day (irrespective of what instrument he performed on) and award him an elaborate prize - a sort of "man of the match" award. From the mid-century the winners of these awards were, with uncanny frequency, ophicleide players. Their prize was always a brand new euphonium. By about 1870 just about every good ophicleide player had "won" a euphonium."

The above would explain, in part, the Ophicleide going out of fashion in Brass Bands. But these competitions were, in that era, mostly in the British Isles. I'd think that this would have had little effect on use of the Ophicleide out side of Brass Bands and little effect outside Great Britain. But I can't say for sure, 'cuz I wasn't there....

Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

[J.c. Sherman]

Similar motives with different execution were employed in other countries. The "ease of playing" the euphonium and tuba were for the novice... just as Sax is "easier" than flute or oboe; but each are equally hard to master.

The low cost of manufacture and the greater potential profits were the same around the world (USA included).

J.c.S.

[Wyvern]

Today Sam Hughes's ophicleide rests in a glass case in Cyfarthfa Castle Museum. It is known throughout the world as one of the best surviving examples of its type. In the quest for authenticity, musicians are now learning to play the ophicleide again and clapped-out specimens are being lovingly restored. Hughes' instrument plays as beautifully today as if the master had put it down just an hour ago.

http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/reso ... hughes.php" target="_blank

I would recommend a visit to the Cyfarthfa Castle Museum if you should be near Merthyr Tydfil in South Wales.

[kingconn]

j.c.Sherman wrote.
"Again, I must disagree. The Ophicleide has a rock solid range below or tied with most bass trombones of the time, and below the third trombones of the era in France. Rock solid."
Guess that's why the bass trombone is an octave lower than the ophicleide in the soli part of Benvenutto Cellini overture.

[J.c. Sherman]

There is no bass trombone in BC. And tubas are not 100% scored lower than bones.

J.c.

[David Richoux]

I was reading an international swing jazz blog a few years ago and noted a thread about "Choro" music from Brazil. It was a blend of jazz, pre-samba and other popular dance music from the late 1800s through the 1940s - a noted composer/flutist /band leader was called Pixinguinha. Bands were combinations of strings and wind instruments and they used what they called "Oficleide" well into the 1920s! They were an important part of many bands - songs were written about them! They were also used in Cuba well into the 20th Century.

The blog http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... choro.html has one picture
(the http://www.brazzil.com" link I mentioned in the comments seems to have expired, but this one works:
http://www.brazzil.com/articles/163-apr ... /9580.html" - a different article) and goggling [ Oficleide brazil ] turns up a lot of interesting stuff.
http://www.rafaelvelloso.com.br/pdf/osaxofone.pdf" gets deep into the role of the Oficleide in this kind of music. This is a dissertation on the role of Saxophone in Choro, but there is a chapter on Oficleides. Good luck with translation - I still don't know the correct gender of Irineu de Almeida (probably male, but not sure!)

[jobriant]

... "Choro" music from Brazil ... they used what they called "Oficleide" well into the 1920s! ... They were also used in Cuba well into the 20th Century.

Ophicleides were still being manufactured in the 20th century as well. My Gautrot Brevete Ophicleide in C has engraving on the bell, noting that they won a gold medal at the Paris Exhibition of 1900 -- so it had to be made no earlier than late 1900. I've read that Gautrot included Ophicleides in their catalog until 1916.

Jim O'Briant
Gilroy, CA

[Donn]

Great find!

http://www.rafaelvelloso.com.br/pesquisa2.html gets deep into the role of the Oficleide in this kind of music.

... where it's presented as interchangeable with tenor sax. Pixinguinha has a kind of weird sax style that sounds just inept to me, but now I wonder ... if we knew how his predecessors sounded on the ophicleide, maybe it would make more sense.

[musicalcunnings]

New ophicleides are still made upon demand, I once saw an ophicleide ensemble on youtube a couple years back. Sorry if I repeat what has been said, but the tuba's role in the orchestra was made as a support, as Gene Pokorny said once, "The tuba is the 4th trombone, the 5th horn, and the extension of the double bass" during an interview on the CSO website. The ophicleide's sound actually (to me) resembles more of a euphonium, and the job of the foundation was not accomplished. Many composers, such as Berlioz (a master of orchestration) and Wagner changed the ophicleide parts to tuba, because this was the preferred sound. I know Mendehlsohn in A Mid-Summer's Night.... left the part as ophicleide, probably because of the tone and such.

[musicalcunnings]

Here is a great example of the ophicleide tone, represented are different sizes it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI" target="_blank


Bass Trombonist Douglas Yeo playing it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2o602r1CzQ" target="_blank

Bigger ones were made I am sure, but I can not imagine the tone of them fulfilling the role of support at the time in the orchestra

[imperialbari]

....Sorry if I repeat what has been said, but the tuba's role in the orchestra was made as a support, as Gene Pokorny said once, "The tuba is the 4th trombone, the 5th horn, and the extension of the double bass" during an interview on the CSO website.

I read John Fletcher saying the same in The Brass Quarterly in 1978, which diminishes none of these fine tubists.

Klaus

[David Richoux]

Great find!

http://www.rafaelvelloso.com.br/pesquisa2.html gets deep into the role of the Oficleide in this kind of music.

... where it's presented as interchangeable with tenor sax. Pixinguinha has a kind of weird sax style that sounds just inept to me, but now I wonder ... if we knew how his predecessors sounded on the ophicleide, maybe it would make more sense.

It may be that "Crying" (Choro) term itself - I had a short exchange a few years ago with a young Brazilian musician who is playing "Forro" - a dance music style, jazzy but based on Marching Band music! ) but he could not really translate it. Maybe it is better translated as "Wailing?" (edit: Weeping! http://tinyurl.com/5gx5ej )
I have 2 Choro CD collections ( "Brésil Choro Samba Frevo 1914-1945" and "Pixinguinha" but I don't recall any particular Oficleide sounds. I will listen again!
This current Forro Youtube has a bit of "Wailing" Tenor Sax:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zFTEjnWvdCc" and there are some old Choro clips that turn up.

There is a bit more general Choro info here:
http://choro-music.blogspot.com/2007/06 ... urces.html