Brass quintet in NY around 1960

[imperialbari]

Likely in the spring of 1964 I in a music class heard an EP (maybe an LP) with a brass quintet, which in one way or another had New York in its name. The sleeve was passed around, and I visually remember a rotary contrabass tuba sitting in the center of the photo. I also remember the tuba sound, because it was different from anything I had heard until then. Much brighter and more focused even in the lower range. What I remember about the music is a bit dimmer, but it very well could have been a renaissance dance.

This memory comes up because of this photo surfacing in a current thread:



The photo wasn’t the same. The present colour could be from a more recent issue, but the main difference is, that the tubist was younger and the players all faced more forward and were closer seated.

Any ideas about which quintet it might have been?

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[bill]

Klaus, my best guess is that it was the New York Brass Quintet and probably with Harvey Phillips. He was, at any rate, the founding tuba member of that group and that is about the right time period.

[brattom]

The New York Brass Quintet seems to be the most likely answer. Harvey Phillips on tuba. Amazing group.

They are probably the group most responsible for the standardization of what we now consider a brass quintet.

Here is a very nice page on the group:

http://www.windsongpress.com/CD/phillips/nybq/nybq.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

Check out the audio samples.

Tom

[Alex C]

Another quintet of that period, with a rotary valve tuba, was the Chamber Brass Players, Jay McAlister on tuba. I believe Jay played a Martin rotary but it may have been a King rotary.

Other members of this group were : Maurice Peress, trumpet; James Spear, trumpet; Brooks Tillotson, horn; Alan Raph, trombone. They made dozens of Music Minus One recordings. Jay was a terrific player as verified by his many recordings. I couldn't find a picture but maybe some enterprising Tubenetter can.

[Roger Lewis]

Mr. Phillips would most likely have been playing a piston horn (his Conn) and not a rotary as Klaus remembers.

Sorry.
Roger

[tuba-tobias]

Mr. Phillips would most likely have been playing a piston horn (his Conn) and not a rotary as Klaus remembers.

Sorry.
Roger

I was about to point out the same fact. I remember talking to Mr. Phillips in Stockholm once and I did then get the impression that he had played his Conn forever. And I can't remember seeing any photos of him with any other tuba except for a sousaphone with Mr. Bell in a circusband and of course the Holton later.

He also told me why he used the Conn 2 mouthpiece. On an occasion early in his career he was to be soloist with a schoolband somewhere and he visited the mens room right before his performance. He was then using a mouthpice of the same material as telephones were made of those days, in Norway we call it "bakelitt".
He kept the mouthpiece in the same pocket as his hanky and when he pulled the hanky out the mouthpiece followed and hit the tiled floor breaking into pieces.
He then borrowed the moutpice of one of the schoolband's sousaphones which happened to be a Conn 2. And he liked it so much that he got his own.

Well, someone, get this topic back on tracks!
And Klaus, remember, we were all younger in '64.

[imperialbari]

This is the old l.p. that I was remembering:



Nagel, Glasel, Barrows, Swallow, Phillips, etc...

By changing a few parameters in my photo viewer this sleeve became clear enough for me to tell that this was not the photo in my almost 45 years old memory. Then rather a B&W version of the sleeve with Mr. Bell.

Thanks to all posters here.

Klaus

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Hi Klaus,

While I have no personal knowledge about the recording of which you are asking, it does appear that, early in HP's career, he did play a ROTARY King, at some point:



Looks like a "Bell model", to me....

[imperialbari]

Never saw this photo of the very young HP before. Thanks for relaying it here.

Next step would be if somebody by accident came up with the old cover sleeves from the records made by the two NY based quintets.

Klaus

[tuba-tobias]

Yes, now I remember seeing that picture with the King rotary!
Well, that proves it, I was defenately younger earlier!
At least the Conn mouthpiece seems to be in place.

[Mikelynch]

Actually, the reports of Harvey playing a rotary King are greatly exaggerated--particularly based on this photo. He told me about the time this picture was taken, and he was actually borrowing Joe Novotny's tux and King. I don't recall why or how the taking of the picture came up, but when it did Harvey did not have his horn or tux with him, and so borrowed those pictured from Joe.


Mike

[eupher61]

many should know Harvey's explanation of 'why that Conn'....in his own words, it was the first CC he could find,after being told he needed to play CC to be a pro.
so,is that a fact? Is a CC required to... oh....n/m

[bill]

Harvey Phillips told me he was told, by Bill Bell, that, in order to progress as a professional, he should play CC. The CC Conn was made available to him very reasonably so he bought it. He told me this in response to a question about switching to CC fingerings and how he was kidded by his colleagues for a week or so while he crossed up fingerings, learning to play CC after years of playing BBb. The CC, when I last saw it, was under the piano in his living room where it had come to rest after the misfortune of an airline running over it with a truck. The Conn CC had been rebuilt.

[Art Hovey]

A friend of mine had an early publicity photo of the NY Brass Quintet on the wall in his bedroom. It was black & white, and Harvey was holding a rotary-valve tuba. It may have been the King. That was around 1957 but the photo was several years old by then.
I never saw that photo on a record sleeve, but it could have been used on one that I missed. I know that there were at least two versions of the cover photo on Bill Bell's solo LP (one with the King and the original with a big new Martin) and that was on the same "Golden Crest" record label.
The story I heard about the Conn was that when Mr. Bell suggested that he get a CC tuba Harvey said "ok, where can I get one?" and Bell replied, "I have no idea." But then he remembered that Abe Torchinsky had the little Conn, and arranged for him to sell it to Harvey.

[eupher61]

The CC, when I last saw it, was under the piano in his living room where it had come to rest after the misfortune of an airline running over it with a truck. The Conn CC had been rebuilt.

BIll, does this mean the original "Harvey Horn" is a literal piece of junk now? Most everyone who's played it through the years says it is, as a tuba, but...literally, now? Or, has it been rebuilt already, since that incident?

[Mikelynch]

Klaus,
Here is the album identified by Alex. [Great memory Alex, this is not a common album!] As Alex noted, the tuba is a rotary valve Martin. Jay was a monster player, perhaps most recognized from hearing his playing on this album, followed by playing the Martin he used. It had to have been quite an experience for him. Intonation is beyond "challenging"--but is has a great sound.

Although not visible in the photo, Jay had an early valve venting system on the first slide---a spit valve in the slide, where it can be opened with the thumb when the slide is moved--useful because the first slide probably spent more time moving than did the trombonist's slide.

Jay can also be heard on many of the Sauter Finnegan Band recordings. There, typically, he was playing a rotary valve King (same .687 bore as those of Bell, Novotny and Torchinsky). I am told that there are a couple of recordings of the Indianapolis Symphony with Jay, though I have never gotten specific information on what those are. He finished out his career playing in Puerto Rico. I last spoke to him there.

Mike

Chamber Brass Cover.jpg

[Toad Away]

Harvey's beloved Conn was just not the same after the rebuild.
A real heartbreak for the man so many of us love so much.



If any tubenetters out there have the old CRI (I think that was the label) LP of
Alvin Etler's Quintet For Brass, you are very lucky.
That recording w/ Harvey's virtuoso performance taught me how to get through
that tough piece on my CC. I'll never forget his friendship, sense of humor, and positive influence.

[Toad Away]

Jay can also be heard on many of the Sauter Finnegan Band recordings

Mike --
Beautiful find for the album picture and a fantastic pic of Jay M.
My only recording of the Sauter / Finnegan Orch. has Harvey but
I'd like to find more .....Great Stuff !

-- Tim Loehr

"There were giants in those days"

[imperialbari]

Thanks for the Tower Music and Jay M reference. The grouping of the players looks more right, but not the angle and the background. Did this quintet issue other records around that time (1960)?

Klaus

[eupher61]

so the damage and rebuild of THE Harvey Conn was a while back? I haven't heard this story before, so I really do want to know about it. Is that when/why he started working with Holton a bit??