Tone/sound concept for quintets

[lgb&dtuba]

I don't normally play quintet jobs but I have a gig this weekend. In preparing for this I've been experimenting with different mouthpieces and noting the different qualities I can get from each. Some are dark and soft and some are brighter and clearer. Some sound best in the lower ranges and some in the higher ranges. Right now I'm torn between a Stofer-Geib and a Helleberg. I can cover the range (F an octave below the staff to C above the staff) with either. The Stofer-Geib is dark (less overtone, more fundamental) and the Helleberg (by comparison) is bright (more overtones, less fundamental).

So, the question for those who play regularly in quintets is, do you prefer a darker, softer sound or a brighter clear sound for quintet work? What sound concept do you shoot for?

[tbn.al]

I prefer a more direct, more fundamental kind of sound because I think it is more of a match for the trumpet and trombone sound. My quintet, on the other hand, prefers more overtone. They like the broader base under them. We both believe the sound with more overtone is more forgiving from an intonation standpoint. I use the instrument mouthpiece combo that the quintet prefers. 4 against 1. I can't win that one.

[Rick Denney]

I go for the clear and focused sound. Sitting next to a trombone and two trumpets will bring out any woofiness or muddiness in the tuba tone. I don't want a quintet to sound like an accompanied tuba solo. One reason I play my 621 F tuba in quintet is that I prefer a closer blend to the trombone, and for the baroque and renaissance stuff, it will more closely approach the trombone sound and blend.

Odd that you get the opposite results from the Geib and Helleberg models that I do. I find the Conn Helleberg to lack the clarity of the Geib, and the Geib's sound is more open and colorful. But I don't use either in a small ensemble. There, I prefer something a lot shallower. I'm using an MF-4 at the moment. I like that diamond sound for quintet.

Rick "cut, color, clarity, and carat-weight" Denney

[imperialbari]

My quintet, on the other hand, prefers more overtone. They like the broader base under them. We both believe the sound with more overtone is more forgiving from an intonation standpoint. I use the instrument mouthpiece combo that the quintet prefers. 4 against 1. I can't win that one.

The broader, brighter, hallfilling sound obtained by a good player on a good instrument through a Helleberg style funnel shaped mouthpiece is not more forgiving intonationwise. On the contrary the rich structure of even and precise overtones provide a distinct frame of reference for the upper 4 players to adjust to.

A lesser tuba player does less harm using a cup shaped mouthpiece, because the overtone structure is more open and out of harms way for the other players.

However a cup shaped mouthpiece also will work for fine quintets with fine players able to uphold every aspect of their own line including intonation. Lines will become more distinct, and complex rhythm patterns will stand out with more clarity.

Klaus

[lgb&dtuba]

I
Odd that you get the opposite results from the Geib and Helleberg models that I do. I find the Conn Helleberg to lack the clarity of the Geib, and the Geib's sound is more open and colorful. But I don't use either in a small ensemble. There, I prefer something a lot shallower. I'm using an MF-4 at the moment. I like that diamond sound for quintet.
Rick "cut, color, clarity, and carat-weight" Denney

Well, my Helleberg is the Kelly stainless steel one. One of the many variants of a Helleberg. That may account for some of the differences we perceive there. Since you didn't say your Geib mouthpiece is the Stofer-Geib maybe they also aren't quite the same. Add in differences of embouchure and instruments and it's not too hard to believe that we really do get different perceptions (both ourselves playing and others listening) of how we sound. For sure if I'm on BBb (which I am) and you're on F we're going to sound very different no matter what other variables are at work.

[cbettler8822]

I also play regularly in a couple quintets. To reiterate what some have already said, I go more for clarity than anything else in the quintet setting. Unless you are playing a tiny instrument (i.e. 2/4), the tuba will provide more than enough support for such a small ensemble without having to work too hard. I try to play on the lighter side of things, and make sure that the melodic lines (usually not in the tuba part) can be heard without those players having to overdo anything. I have found this approach to generate the most blend in my ensembles. Hope this helps.

Chris Bettler

[Rick Denney]

For sure if I'm on BBb (which I am) and you're on F we're going to sound very different no matter what other variables are at work.

I use an F for quintet, but my observations of the Helleberg and Geib mouthpieces were on my big tubas. Yes, the Geib is Lee's version, but my Helleberg is a Conn.

There are lots of reasons for the difference observations, not least of which the imprecision of the words we use to describe them. Your "dark" may be my "colorful", etc.

Rick "who uses an MF-4 with his F tubas" Denney

[JCalkin]

I don't normally play quintet jobs but I have a gig this weekend. In preparing for this I've been experimenting with different mouthpieces and noting the different qualities I can get from each. Some are dark and soft and some are brighter and clearer. Some sound best in the lower ranges and some in the higher ranges. Right now I'm torn between a Stofer-Geib and a Helleberg. I can cover the range (F an octave below the staff to C above the staff) with either. The Stofer-Geib is dark (less overtone, more fundamental) and the Helleberg (by comparison) is bright (more overtones, less fundamental).

So, the question for those who play regularly in quintets is, do you prefer a darker, softer sound or a brighter clear sound for quintet work? What sound concept do you shoot for?

It depends.

For most things, I use a F tuba to achieve a greater blend (more of a "homogeneous" sound.) The brighter, lighter tone makes for more of a "five equal voices" kind of mix. I find this especially helpful in Baroque/Renaissance/etc. types of things.

If, however, we're doing a lot of jazz stuff and I'm to provide the walking bass, then I use the CC. Ditto polkas etc.

I frequently find myself bringing two horns to quintet gigs for this reason, but if I had to choose only one, it would be in favor of the brighter, clearer tone.

[Mark E. Chachich]

If you play frequent quintet jobs (especially if you are the regular tubist in a quintet), the discussion about what type of sound is very important. Since you do not normally play many quintet jobs, play the equipment that you are most solid on; for example hitting notes, intonation, etc. Chipping notes, faulty intonation and other such things are very easy to notice in a quintet. This is my opinion from a fair amount of quintet playing in the past.

best of luck and enjoy,
Mark

[lgb&dtuba]

If you play frequent quintet jobs (especially if you are the regular tubist in a quintet), the discussion about what type of sound is very important. Since you do not normally play many quintet jobs, play the equipment that you are most solid on; for example hitting notes, intonation, etc. Chipping notes, faulty intonation and other such things are very easy to notice in a quintet. This is my opinion from a fair amount of quintet playing in the past.

best of luck and enjoy,
Mark

Thanks. Good advice. And after last night's rehearsal exactly where I ended up. On the combination I felt most solid on.