NY Phil - Mahler 2

[Thomas Maurice Booth]

Apparently there is a good deal of unrest at the Phil over "conductor" Gilbert Kaplan and his "mastery" of Mahler 2. The two links I have posted below are from the NY Times and to the blog of trombonist David Finlayson. The blog from Finlayson is well worth the read...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/arts/ ... &ref=music" target="_blank

http://davidfinlayson.typepad.com/fin_notes/" target="_blank

TMB

[UDELBR]

... and to the blog of trombonist David Finlayson. The blog from Finlayson is well worth the read...

http://davidfinlayson.typepad.com/fin_notes/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I wonder if Dave's scathing attack on Kaplan has anything to do with this:

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ASSOCIATE PRINCIPAL TROMBONE – 1 POSITION
Employment to begin at mutually agreed upon date based on availability of chosen candidate.

I've played the Mahler under Kaplan. Not much worse than the average conductor that drifts through in the course of a season's rotation. Certainly not worth throwing a tantrum on a publicly visible blog.

[ztuba]

Wow... he loved that conductor huh? I wonder if they will invite that guy back to wave a stick at them anytime soon? HAHAHAHA Sucks to play anything with a moron in front of you telling you what you should do. I now count myself lucky to have never experienced this with any serious literature.

[windshieldbug]

The successful orchestra (especially in today's economy) must bridge themselves between artists and entertainment.

On the stage side, one spends one's entire life in the pursuit of the essence of artistry, while the orchestra management must concern themselves with the paying public.

Some of those in attendance will appreciate a moving performance, while others there are only tangentially interested. The management does whatever it has to so that it can to fill the seats.

Sometimes these aims coincide, often they do not.

Welcome to the world of professional music.

[Tubainsauga]

I read this article yesterday and I don't really know what to make of it. The rhetoric on all sides kind of troubles me. I do question his abilities as a conductor, however his performances are widely received. That may be proof that the genius of both Mahler and World class orchestra come through regardless of who's on the podium. That being said, calling him an "imposter" really doesn't sit well with me. I think people need to remember that musicians are entertainers as well as artists (if you choose to differentiate the two). Just my small fraction of a dollar.

Available Positions

ASSOCIATE PRINCIPAL TROMBONE – 1 POSITION
Employment to begin at mutually agreed upon date based on availability of chosen candidate.

That is just the result of Jim Markey winning the Bass Trombone spot (former associate and one heck of a trombonist)

[Easty621]

"The Philharmonic said that Mr. Kaplin had been engaged at the suggestion of Lorin Maazel, its music director..."
Don't you think a world class conductor like Maazel would be best to judge if Kaplan is worthy of conducting that orchestra over any of the musicians in it? Just an honest question.

[Toobist]

However much I'd be seething in the back row while wishing for a bus to fall on this gentleman - if the hall sold out and the audience didn't feel the way I did, I'd have to be thankful of the ticket sales. All that press (good and bad), only helps sell tickets. Ticket sales keep orchestras in business. Orchestra musicians (even artists) need jobs. The way I see it, put the goofball on stage for one tune and fill those seats.

Maybe it'll even make us resent some of the other talentless hacks who wave a stick in front of us just a little less. It certainly makes me appreciate the hard-working and talented conductors all the more.

[jtuba]

"The Philharmonic said that Mr. Kaplin had been engaged at the suggestion of Lorin Maazel, its music director..."
Don't you think a world class conductor like Maazel would be best to judge if Kaplan is worthy of conducting that orchestra over any of the musicians in it? Just an honest question.

That's if you consider Maazel world class. Some may, others don't.

[Tubadork]

I was talking about this with a friend of mine and we both agreed that Kaplan is well know for what he does and butts in seats which pays the bills. So it kinda becomes a grin a bear it exercise, like most pops concerts. But I think what is at issue here is not so much that we would never play one the these because it is beneath us, but more to the point, why should we take such an amazing piece like Mahler 2 and turn it into a grin and bear it situation, when it should be an amazing MUSICAL experience.
Bill

[Wyvern]

I have seen Kaplin conduct the Philharmonia in London. Although he did not stand out as a brilliant conductor, he also did not seem particularly bad. I wonder how much of this 'tantrum' is down to his 'amateur' status?

His recording of Mahler 2 with the London Symphony Orchestra is pretty good, although that may well be largely down to this superb orchestra.

[ZNC Dandy]

It seems that he has done quite well other times with other orchestras. Perhaps he had an off night?

He was here with the Cincinnati Symphony earlier this year. The second night performance was very good. The orchestra saved his ***. The first night, which I did not attend, was a different story according to some musicians who played it. Neither performance was exceptionally crowded. Are we setting a dangerous precedent that just because someone donates money, and has the possibility of filling chairs, that they get to conduct an orchestra like the NYPO? Benjamin Zander is infinitely more capable of doing this than Gilbert Kaplan. I heard him do Mahler 2 with the Akron Symphony last year, and it was an inspiring performance, and he put butts in the seats. Zander gave a wonderful talk beforehand as well, not just about Mahler, but music and life in general. As far as Kaplan's recordings with the LSO, and Vienna Philharmonic, nothing to write home about in my opinion. I own around 20-25 recordings of this symphony, and would place his near the bottom. Especially the fairly anemic sounding final movements.

[eupher61]

That's if you consider Maazel world class. Some may, others don't.

I don't think Maazel's status can realistically be challenged. Like him or not, he has the credentials to be called "world class".

[imperialbari]

I have seen Kaplin conduct the Philharmonia in London. Although he did not stand out as a brilliant conductor, he also did not seem particularly bad. I wonder how much of this 'tantrum' is down to his 'amateur' status?

His recording of Mahler 2 with the London Symphony Orchestra is pretty good, although that may well be largely down to this superb orchestra.

If the NYPO becomes too associated with amateurs, they may loose that special aura allowing them to sell odd merchandises to those wanting to feel themselves special through initiation (or should that be ignition?).

K

[MikeMason]

klaus,please post a few files of your playing.

[imperialbari]

klaus,please post a few files of your playing.

mike, why should I do that as long as I do not weigh in my playing as an argument in a discussion?

you have posted a few files of your thinking. I will let the readers do their own evaluation of that.

Klaus

[MikeMason]

klaus,i see this discussion and your continued slams as musical,not scientific.The gear you're slamming was made for musicians,not scientists.

[Uncle Buck]

you have posted a few files of your thinking. I will let the readers do their own evaluation of that.

Klaus

[TUBAD83]

People who think that they are so great that they can not be replaced usually are shocked when they are dismissed. Being a professional also means knowing when to hold your tongue (that includes NOT ranting on your blog that can read by the entire world) and not openly question the people who sign your checks.

JJ

[MileMarkerZero]

Just my opinion, of course...

BUT

If the performance was "uninspiring," I would lay that more at the feet of the musicians. They knew going in to the gig that Kaplan is NOT a profesional conductor. He has studied primarily ONE WORK for decades. His only discography to date consists of that same ONE WORK. He is not, nor does he claim to be apparently, an authority on conducting. I have no doubt that he is one of, if not THE, foremost authority on Mahler 2 in a scholastic arena. I think we all know some absolutely amazingly knowledgeable people that barely know where beat 2 is in a 4/4 pattern.

How many times have the NYPO musicians played Mahler 2 in their careers? OK, he doesn't do transitions well. But some of the most inspiring performances are far from being the cleanest. Give it whatchya got anyway! He is an amateur. He will go with the orchestra.

I lay it more at the feet of the musicians. WTH did they expect? The second coming of Toscanini? The man is an amatuer, no matter how he came to be on the podium, and no matter how many times he has conducted the piece elsewhere. The musicians are the professionals. If a musician can produce an "uninspiring" rendition of Mahler 2, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate WHY they are musicians. Given the chance to play this piece, on stage and with a competent orchestra, it would take Jack Hannah and a rinocerous dart to keep me from bringing the wood! If you can't get inspired to give a world-class performance of an intrinsically inspiring work like MAHLER 2 simply because you don't like the guy waving the white twig around, then methinks the motivations are not so much musical as egotistical.

Just because Kaplan's interpretation was "simplistic" doesn't mean the musician's has to be. The performance was "rudderless." Was this necessarily because Kaplan was in command of the ship, or was it because the crew resented how he got there and mailed it in? Mr. Finlayson claims that the musicians were "denied that journey." By whom? The journey is there for the taking! Does anyone honestly think that providing a more vigorous performance than what was being asked would be cause for repercussions?

Mr. Kaplan apparently was "unable to bring to the surface any of Mahler's darkness, pensiveness, and schizophrenia." OK, he isn't a professional. The musicians ARE. And as musicians, they owe it to the music to bring that out even if the interpretational skills of the conductor are lacking. I have always been of the opinion that it is up to me to play the music as I see fit musically. If that doesn't fit with where the conductor is going, then it is his job to tell me differently. If he doesn't say anything I'm going to assume that his interpretation and mine are from the same page of the hymnal. It's up to the musicians to bring the inspriation just as much as it is the conductor. If he provides none, it's up to the musicians to bring it all.

As a musician, you have to be able to accede to the wishes of the conductor. When those wishes are not known, or are not clear, the musician must be subservient to the music.

In the musicians defense, they were put in an unfortunate circumstance by management. However, out here in the real world, "unfortunate circumstance" translates to "gut-check time."

LJV's observation:

Lastly, I would be curious to know for whom Mr. Mehta and Mr. Maazel were not standing.

is particularly interesting. I would think that just out of plain old-fashioned respect that they would applaud the conductor. But in this case where they listened to the NYPO mail in a performance, I'm thinking that they were more showing their displeasure at the orchestra than at the man on the riser. The expectations for the orchestra were likely far higher from Messrs. Mehta and Maazel.

[/rant]

[DavidK]

As soon as someone makes an effort to attend, tune into or pays money to see or listen or experience something, they expect to be entertained. Enjoy, Laugh, Cry, Scream, Question, Be enlightened, Have a catharsis, all of it.

It is the performer's obligation to give their best for each audience, every performance.
If you need clarification, look up "Buddy Rich Bus" on youtube. There is a lengthy dissertation on performance quality and motivation in no uncertain terms.