early years/first year of Miraphone "S" series - S186, etc.

[Dan Schultz]

.... The straight links with their variantions on the Ball & Socket principle are lifted above the cranks so that they will not prevent the needed 180° of rotation.....

Hey, Klaus! Don't know what sort of rotary valves you have over there. But ours here in the US only rotate 90 degrees.

[imperialbari]

Error has been corrected, sorry!

Klaus

[Dan Schultz]

..... I just bought an older 186 with S-links. Hope they aren't worn out. .....

Those older 'S' links are quite robust and rarely wear out to the point where they can't be revived through simple means. I do not like 'adjustment screws' because if they can be adjusted, they can also become unadjusted. Properly cared for 'S' links will serve you a lot longer than some of the newer types of couplings. If the rotors are noisy on the horn you are about to receive, the first thing to look for will be loose stop arms, loose bumper plates, hardened (or missing) bumpers, or too much end play in the rotors themselves. The only point that may require service is where the 'S' link attaches to the stop arm... and that's an easy fix. Now... if the linkage assembly has been damaged due to neglect or is bent, that's a different story. At any rate, parts are still available. In short... don't be too hasty to blame valve noise on the 'S' arms.

[Dan Schultz]

Error has been corrected, sorry!

Klaus

No need to apologize. It's not often you make a mistake.

[The Big Ben]

..... I just bought an older 186 with S-links. Hope they aren't worn out. .....

Those older 'S' links are quite robust and rarely wear out to the point where they can't be revived through simple means. I do not like 'adjustment screws' because if they can be adjusted, they can also become unadjusted. Properly cared for 'S' links will serve you a lot longer than some of the newer types of couplings. If the rotors are noisy on the horn you are about to receive, the first thing to look for will be loose stop arms, loose bumper plates, hardened (or missing) bumpers, or too much end play in the rotors themselves. The only point that may require service is where the 'S' link attaches to the stop arm... and that's an easy fix. Now... if the linkage assembly has been damaged due to neglect or is bent, that's a different story. At any rate, parts are still available. In short... don't be too hasty to blame valve noise on the 'S' arms.

Thanks, Dan! I didn't (and don't) look at S-links as some do but, if someone is willing to charge less for a horn because it has S-links, I have no problem with that! Good to know about simple fixes.

Jeff "Wallet squeaks when opened" Benedict

[Rick Denney]

Yes, as said in my previous posting there were options for either S- or straight links.

I'm not sure this was true in the U.S. market, though I don't doubt your recollection of the European market. The S certainly did not stand for "S links". My late 70's 186 (which I acquired in 1991) had ball-and-socket links with the horrible white plastic nylon sockets. I'd much rather have S links than those things (but I would rather still have Du-Bro ball ends that I installed). At that time, all Miraphones were marketed as having the ball-and-socket linkages, and I don't recall that the "S" models ever had S links while the "Pro" models did not.

I think TubaRay's Miraphone, which I seem to recall that he bought new in the early 70's, had S links, while my late 70's model didn't. So, the switch away from S links for U.S.-marketed models happened at some point in the middle 70's.

I seem to recall that the S-186 models showed up later, perhaps in the early 80's. By that time, even budget-model rotary tubas often had ball-and-socket linkages. The "Sanders"-labeled Cerveny that I bought in 1984 had cheapie ball-and-socket linkages that I think were installed ex-factory, possibly by (and certainly for) Custom Music. They were too light to be durable, and I replaced them something more robust. My B&S F tuba, which predates the Parantucci designations, has clocksprings, but the linkages had ball ends on one end.

I was told at the time (early 80's) that the "S" stood for "student", and denoted instruments specifically designed for a lower price point by leaving off some of of the appearance details of the "Pro" model. But I think my source for that description came from the one Miraphone dealer I discussed it with in detail--this funky Memphis shop that used to have an ad in the TUBA Journal that comprised a sideways picture of a Miraphone 188. He sounded pretty authoritative at the time, and maybe that will help answer Joe's question. I know it was 1984, because I had that discussion right before buying the Cerveny (the Miraphone, even the S version, was too expensive for me at the time).

Rick "enjoying the circularity of it all" Denney

[imperialbari]

When I read bilingual catalogues, I invariably read the original language if at all possible. And I haven’t been immensely interested in the odd US numbering systems for European makes (Mira, Hirshy).

I have tried to make the best out the limited file size for .jpg’s of the 4 graphic pages about rotary tubas from a Miraphone catalogue from around 1993. The 3rd page best illustrates the modular model approach also known from B&S.

I will see, if I can make something readable out of the spread with specs, which makes the German and The American numbering systems comparable. Those wanting high res .pdf versions will know about my huge galleries (5000+ entries) of brass related photos and scans.

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#1LowRes.jpg

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#2LowRes.jpg

2 more in the next posting

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Two more:

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#3LowRes.jpg

1993MiraRotTubaCatPages#4LowRes.jpg

[imperialbari]

Only by cutting off the German and English titles plus the logo on top of the page I managed to inch this file down below 256K. To my surprise the preview shows, that the spread is actually readable.

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

Only by cutting off the German and English titles plus the logo on top of the page I managed to inch this file down below 256K. To my surprise the preview shows, that the spread is actually readable.

Klaus

Klaus, most of those variants have never been seen in the U.S., and it's interesting that as late as the early 90's Miraphone was offering clock-spring arrangements. I've never seen a clock-spring Miraphone.

And I would also be hard-pressed to recall any sighting of a three-valve Miraphone rotary tuba. One exception was in the middle 80's, when I saw one at a music store in Austin, Texas. But it had three compensating valves. They were double-depth rotaries with compensating loops, ala a three-valve Blaikely system. I did not know enough at the time to really study the branch routing, but I wish I'd taken some pictures. It had been in that store for several years. The marked price was $2700 at a time when one could buy a new 186 for only a little more.

So, anything is possible. I note that the S designation is absent from your catalog pages altogether.

Rick "recalling that the S models were about $500 cheaper when they were first available" Denney

[imperialbari]

What I call the modular design implies that the same main bugle is found from the cheapest through the most espensive versions of the same model from the same maker. I have seen huge Kaiser basses with only three rotors, as I have seen at least one BAT documented, which only had 3 top pistons. These German “primitive" Kaisers are the local equivalent of the American 3 piston sousaphones: max sound output combined with as little weight as possible. Personally I would not want such sound potential combined with only 3 valves.

I haven’t seen a compensating Miraphone with rotary valves, However I have photos of 3 such BBb basses made by Hirsbrunner. I have uploaded some photos in a separate thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31183

Klaus