Very random...I'm sitting in my office waiting to pick up the girlie from a friends baby shower....soooo bored with no work to do.
I often get confused as to which parts of the tuba's body are called what. (ex: particular bows etc...). Has anyone ever come up with a picture of a tuba which has terms and lines drawn to the appropriate place? (Sorta like a picture of the human body pointing to certain muscles.)
If not.....maybe this could be a fun quick little thing that one of our experts can pull up or create. I've found pictures online of simples tuba things....(bell, valves...) Anything more in depth?
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
the elephant wrote:Bell, bottom bow or 1st branch, top bow or 2nd branch, 3rd branch, 4th branch, et cetera, until you reach the machine, which is the factory name for the assembled valve section with slides. The you have the mouth pipe or lead pipe.
On some F tubas the 2nd branch or top bow goes into the main slide and machine, so that is all you have. Lots of BBb horns with around an extra six feet in the main bugle with have all of these inner bows, numbered starting from the bottom bow until you reach the machine.
So.... when one refers to the "bugle" , does that section begin at the bell and end just before the valve section?
the elephant wrote:When a horn with a lot of bows (two being called a loop) is set next to a horn of roughly the same and in the same key but with fewer loops in the bugle, it is said to be of an open wrap design, which removes resistance in many cases and can improve playing characteristics, yet some today are of such a large bore size and with such an open wrap that they offer almost NO resistance, which is going overboard and introduces new problems.
Are there some brands/models you had in mind here that would prompt you to say to the 191 player: Pfft. You just thought you were playing low resistance.
Naptown Tuba wrote:So.... when one refers to the "bugle" , does that section begin at the bell and end just before the valve section?
I have always interpreted this old, but newly-applied (maybe...??) descriptive term as
The small end of the mouthpiece receiver to the bell rim. I have interpreted the term to exclude the cylindrical tubing connected to any valves. I have interpreted the "bugle" as it passes through the valve section to be some subjective/imagined cylindrical (most instruments) or slightly conical (some B&S rotary instruments / some latter-day front-action piston instruments / etc.) section of tubing that is the same length as the valve machine with no valves depressed.
If you depress the valve wouldn't that just change the key of the bugle? I mean, you press the valve, but all you've done is elongate the bugle and thus change the note. I think this is what you mean by imaginary?
SplatterTone wrote:Very informative. One question ....
the elephant wrote:When a horn with a lot of bows (two being called a loop) is set next to a horn of roughly the same and in the same key but with fewer loops in the bugle, it is said to be of an open wrap design, which removes resistance in many cases and can improve playing characteristics, yet some today are of such a large bore size and with such an open wrap that they offer almost NO resistance, which is going overboard and introduces new problems.
Are there some brands/models you had in mind here that would prompt you to say to the 191 player: Pfft. You just thought you were playing low resistance.
So this is an example of the open vs. non-open:
My Mirafone 1290 vs. the Miraphone 1291....essentially the "same horn" (even more close would be the 1295 vs. the 1291). It is exactly this.....an open wrap with much less resistance (not crazy openness, but good.) It looks very similar except it is stretched out.
Bore size is the diameter of the inside of the tubing in the machine..... It needs to be the same in 1, 2 and 3...
Why? Who knows?
Actually, the third and fourth valve on a Jupiter 582 have larger bore than the first and second, which is one thing I like about that instrument. I have never understood why they don't advertise that fact.
pierso20 wrote: . . . . Has anyone ever come up with a picture of a tuba which has terms and lines drawn to the appropriate place? . . . .
How badly do you want to know? Diagrams are available in patents, such as at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank , where one has to register in order to see the drawings. The Marzan US Patent 3686995 (1972) is there. However, you have to read the text (called the "specification") to connect a descriptive name with a numbered drawing detail.
Dean E
[S]tudy politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy . . . in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry [and] music. . . . John Adams (1780)
pierso20 wrote: . . . . Has anyone ever come up with a picture of a tuba which has terms and lines drawn to the appropriate place? . . . .
How badly do you want to know? Diagrams are available in patents, such as at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank , where one has to register in order to see the drawings. The Marzan US Patent 3686995 (1972) is there. However, you have to read the text (called the "specification") to connect a descriptive name with a numbered drawing detail.
This is a neat idea. I just wanna know for my own sake. Plus, it wouldn't be bad for my students to take a look at....of course, with them, it's sometimes a challenge to get them to remember where the valve slides are
Any tuba has a finite list of specific parts. If you use a picture, people will confuse the details of the picture (which may not be relevant) with the definition. That's why words are better.
To reiterate Wade's post, with the understanding that sometimes saying the same thing several ways promotes understanding:
A tuba starts with a mouthpiece receiver, which is connected to a leadpipe. The leadpipe goes to the first valve (not necessarily Valve Number 1). Then, you have the machine, which includes the valves, their actuators, and their tubing branches. The valve branch comprises knuckles (part of the valve casing), ferrules, which connect the knuckles to tubing sections, and tuning slide assemblies. Outer slides are part of a tuning-slide assembly, into which the tuning slide inserts. The tuning slide comprises two inner slides (or inner tubing), two ferrules, and a crook (the curved part).
Once you leave the valve machine, you go through the main tuning slide (on some instruments, this is before the valve machine rather than after it, and on some instruments, there is an additional valve following the main tuning slide). Then, you have to line up with the rest of the instrument, and this often requires an S-shaped tubing section, known as a dog-leg. Then, you have tapered sections, which are called bows (they may be straight or curved, or partly straight and partly curved). They connect together with ferrules. The final bows that form the outer shape of the tuba are called the outer branches. The final bow that sits on your lap and is the bottom bow. The bell stack fits into the bottom bow using a ferrule, and the bell flare (or just "bell") is the terminus of the bell stack.
All the parts are held together with braces when the ferrules are not enough to provide sufficient structural strength.
The mouthpiece has a rim, a cup, a throat, a backbore, and a shank. The backbore describes the inside surface of the shank, and "shank" is usually used to describe the outside surface that fits into the receiver.
The bugle is the instrument with no valves depressed. Valves add tubing to the bugle.
When you attach these terms to a picture, people will get confused by the unique qualities of the particular instrument being pictured. But if you define the terms in words, they can be applied to a picture of any tuba. These terms work equally well for a helicon, piston tubas with top or front action, or rotary tubas.
Rick "who finds that pictures create more problems than they solve for defining things" Denney
The small end of the mouthpiece receiver to the bell rim. I have interpreted the term to exclude the cylindrical tubing connected to any valves. I have interpreted the "bugle" as it passes through the valve section to be some subjective/imagined cylindrical (most instruments) or slightly conical (some B&S rotary instruments / some latter-day front-action piston instruments / etc.) section of tubing that is the same length as the valve machine with no valves depressed.
