TO BUZZ OR NOT TO BUZZ ?

[ztuba]

Billy Watrous has off horn buzzing in his instructional record that comes with the method book... I guess that must mean that he even thinks it is useful for certain things. Like making the horn do what YOU want it to do instead of what your ingrained tendencies want it to do. On trombone you can get a half valved sound by taking your face away from the horn slightly and partially free buzzing up the range until you get to your target note. Billy demonstrates it beautifully on his record.

[Rick Denney]

I believe that it is conceivable that an extraordinarily fine tuba player may (??) have never spent much time with this pursuit, and may (??) not be particularly good at it.

We're getting hung up on "mastery". Some might advocate learning how to buzz beautifully as an end in its own right. I certainly have never attempted that. I use it as a tool to identify air flow and embouchure strength problems. I suspect that I've attained all the potential improvement from buzzing long before I would be able to buzz beautifully in some absolute sense.

There are lots of similar-but-not-the-same skills we use to get past certain hurdles. For example, we play scales to print common patterns into our brains, and this helps even when the music in question has some accidentals and departs from the pattern.

Rick "thinking of several tools that might successfully accomplish any given task" Denney

[TMurphy]

All I can say on the subject, is that from personal experience, buzzing has been a key factor in my development as a tuba player. I use it as part of my warm-up, buzzing simple melodies before I ever touch the horn. It helps get my chops going, and, in my opinion, has helped me to develop a clear, refined sound. If I can get a good, full sound on the mouthpiece with no "airiness," (which is harder to do than on the horn), than I know when I plug the mouthpiece in the horn, I'll be able to do it there, too. It works for me, and has always helped.

I also find that when working with students who are having difficulty with a particular passage, it helps to have them match the pitch on the mouthpiece, then buzz the passage. Then when they plug the mouthpiece back into the horn, 9 times out of 10, they can play something they couldn't before. Again, just my observations, and YMMV.

[Brucom]

Yes, go to the local hardware store and get a piece of clear rubber tubing, half-inch inside diameter, one foot long. It will cost less than a dollar.

Put the tubing on the end of any mouthpiece. Buzz. The resistance is like playing the whole tuba. Buzz in the car every day. But last month on the Ohio Turnpike a young Tollhouse Cookie saw my mouthpiece with rubber hose on my dashboard and asked, "Is that your bong?"

[Tubaguyjoe]

Have you ever heard of somebody who can buzz amazingly, but can't play the tuba well?....my point exactly.

[yoink]

I think your response was excellent except for the BERP. I have tried to justify the BERP with Mr. Jacobs teaching and nothing he said that I am aware of would encourage adding additional resistance to the mouthpiece.

I am a college student and my private lesson teacher, played bass trombone, studied with Arnold Jacobs in the early 80's era. He tells me to buzz everything. When I asked him about adding resistance, an idea given to me from a professor from another school on a college visit, he it is not about the resistance it is about the muscles. If we can do it with our lips, without added resistance, we will be able to do it easier on the horn. He says that is what Mr. Jacobs advocated.

[ubq]

I think that one thing will be forgotten all the time about Mr. Jacobs's buzzing advices.
You have to buzz songs, poptunes etc on the mouthpiece (as he says to connect the brain with the lips: to sing!), but only in the low and in the lower midrange and only for a few minutes. Dynamics should be also limited to mp-mf. If done correctly buzzing can help for sure, but the opposite is also true: improper mouthpiece buzzing can harm your tuba playing.

Once I was listening to Ben van Dijk's (Basstrombone Rotterdam Philharmonic) masterclass, where he was talking about warming up. He started - after the breathing excersies - immediately on the instrument - with soft glissandos based on the Emory Remington excersises. For the tubaplayers present at the masterclass he said to do the same on the mouthpiece. Please think about it...

[TubaGoon]

I read this post a few weeks back and thought about responding because I did buzz on occasion to help warm up or achieve a fuller tone, but didn't really do it religiously. I also would partially cover the mouthpiece with my hand when holding it to simulate the resistance of the horn while buzzing.

I have since gotten a B.E.R.P. for my tuba, and it has changed how I play the instrument. Let me head this up with saying that I am not in any way a spokesman or representative for BERP or anything of that nature. That said, in the week or two that I have had this, I have already noticed a change in my sound and the ease with which I can now play the instrument, as have other musicians that hear me. The biggest advantage about the BERP is that it forces you to use your air and ears to create the proper pitches and musical phrases to get a proper sound while buzzing. Plus it allows you to have the feeling of having the mouthpiece in the leadpipe and holding the horn/moving the valves while playing. That "sensation," if you will, presents a whole other advantage over regular buzzing. While using this little thing, you still have the feeling of holding and playing the horn, so your body is also functioning in the same way that it would with the horn in your hands (because it is in your hands).

The BERP comes with a little sleeve to cover some holes and create resistance, however, I have found much more benefit not using the sleeve. I find that creating what is actually artificial resistance with your hand or some tape or whatever is actually detrimental to when you put the mouthpiece back on the horn. The point of buzzing is to help get a good solid sound on both the mouthpiece and then the horn. What creates that good solid sound? Yes, the lips a bit, but what makes the lips buzz? AIR. If you get used to using more air than you may think that you need to on the mouthpiece, when you go to put that on the horn, you get a glorious sound, and you have an easier, more natural way about you on the horn, and practice feels more like progress. I have noticed a huge change in my approach to the instrument, and have found that when I'm missing notes here or there or they don't quite sound, it's not because of the chops. More often than not, I'm not using enough AIR to produce the proper sound or get through the phrase. If it FEELS difficult at the beginning of the instrument (the buzz), imagine how it will SOUND coming out on the other end (the bell) of the instrument.

Long story short I guess - DO BUZZ, but use as little resistance and pressure as possible when doing so, and use enough air to to hit the notes and get through the phrase on the mouthpiece. If you can do that, you will be able to play it on the horn, and it will probably be more musical and easier than normal, if not ever.

*EDIT* - my apologies if all of this has been covered in previous posts, it's just my two cents and experience.

[eupher61]

If the pitch changes by a 5th into the horn, you're probably not buzzing a pitch that matches the length of the pipe--IOW, you need to match the buzz to the valves!

Of course what you say is common sense...but there is one way in which I disagree with you. If you truely have control of your embechoure and air flow, you can bend pitches quite a ways from the valve combination or slide position. True test of mastery: Start on a Bb and descend by half-step...see how far you can get down the valve pattern while maintaining the Bb pitch (i.e., you are changing the valve combination/slide position, but maintaining the same pitch). It is not impossible...but takes a lot of solid work and practice. As I no longer practice everyday (and am lucky if I do every-other day), I can no longer do this...but if anyone else out there can...please post to You-Tube with a link on Tubenet. Sometimes seeing (hearing) is believing.

And, in kind I agree that pitch bending is certainly possible. But, that doesn't mean it's preferable. As is commonly said, the tuba (or euphonium,trumpet, horn, or trombone) is merely an amplifier. The valves are needed due to natures laws of acoustics. If you've buzzed a Bb, it should be a Bb on the tuba.

I've taken a different tack from a BERP. Get a mouthpiece you won't miss, and have the cup cut out about 270 degrees. Leave the rim, obviously, and leave a piece of the cup to connect to the shank. The visualizer SHOWS everything easily, and it can be done in playing position. If everything is working at top efficiency, the horn will respond, even if it isn't perfect tone. I use the visualizer to complement the mouthpiece buzz, to diagnose and review specific physical issues.

[ken k]

buzzing is one of the tools in my briefcase so to speak. i don't hold it as the end all but often times a student will have a spot in their range where their tone is weak or unfocused and I iwll ask them to buzz that note and they usually can't. They can go above or below but can't play that specific note. So we work on that a bit. After that, we work on buzzing a siren starting with an octave or so and then trying to increase that little by little until they can buzz a smooth siren over their range. Again there will usually be a spot in that range that they have to work through but that will improve with time.

Also if a student is just learning the high range, I try to have them buzz the high note. Often times they can buzz up to a high Bb even when they can't play that high on the horn because they are just trying to squeeze it out, or blow their brains out to ge tthe high note. But when they hear that they can buzz it on the mouthpiece and then try to buzz it the same way on the horn, the note will often times come out, much to their amazement!

There used to be an old computer programming saying GIGO "Garbage in, Garbage out." And if your buzz going in is garbage chances are your sound will be too.

Again I don't usually have them buzz an entire excercise on the mouthpeice but when I buzz an excercise for them they always look at me like I am some kind of freak. Well maybe I am. Does that make me a better tuba player or is it just another parlor trick? i guess that is up for debate.

ken k

[Eupher6]

I played for decades before I began studying with the principal trombone of the Memphis Symphony, Greg Luscombe.

He got me buzzing off-horn and it was the best thing that ever happened to my playing. While I also was pretty confident in the sound I'd had before buzzing (and not being able to buzz at all before working at it), my tone improved with clarity and fullness that I'd not heard before.

Accuracy improved, also. Far fewer clams and where there were clams, those were usually the fault of faulty air.

I made a bunch of headway while buzzing while in my daily commute. Some people yap on cell phones - I buzzed.

Works for me.

[happyroman]

I've been away for a while, and thought I'd bring up an older thread and add a comment. I studied with Mr. Jacobs in the late 1970s, and am a diehard advocate of practicing on the mouthpiece alone (I am not fond of referring to this as buzzing, which to me has a certain pejorative connotation).

The point that Mr. Jacobs made about mouthpiece practice that made the greatest impact on me has to do with the creation of a direct link from the brain to the lips. When the mouthpiece is in the instrument, you can be somewhat less precise in the pitch being vibrated by the lips, and the instrument will help out by fitting the note into the closest slot for you. However, if you want to play a C on the mouthpiece, you have to vibrate the C on your own. If you are even a little off, you clearly hear the difference and can make the adjustment yourself.

This type of practice is exactly what is referred to in the books The Talent Code and Talent is Overrated as deep practice. This is the kind of practice that enables one to learn at a faster rate and in a much more efficient manner. If the purpose of practice is to train the lips to behave in the same manner as a singers vocal chords, then mouthpiece practice is one of the best ways to achieve that goal.

The other aspect of mouthpiece practice that is extremely beneficial is that it helps one to learn new habits that can replace old, less useful habits. After years of playing, the instrument becomes a very strong psychological stimulus. Simply picking the horn up creates a connection in the brain with the old habit, making it extremely difficult to avoid it. If you put the horn aside, and practice on the mouthpiece alone, you can work on the new habit until it is developed to the point you can then reintroduce the instrument and not have the old habit be dominant.

[OffuttTubaGuy]

I thought some of you might like to hear what Allen Vizzutti has to say about the negitive effects of mouthpiece buzzing (around 2:08 into the video clip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRWgYWnLOc" target="_blank

[Ken Herrick]

The Vizzutti clips are interesting. In my view, he is actually rather confused about what REALLY makes the sound. Without VIBRATION, there would not be much of a sound. You can blow a lot of air at high pressure through an instrument and it will not make what we normally consider to be a "musical" sound. His idea of turbulence in the mouthpied being the source of the sound he gets is simply weird. IF his lips did not vibrate, he would NOT get a good trumpet sound. I am afraid this is a case of the very good player who would not make an equally good teacher - going by what is in that clip.

He has another - Clarke study #2 espousing "breath control". That is all fine and well for a trumpet player who needs nowhere near the quantity of air to produce his sound that a tubist does. Just looking at him, I would bet he has close to a 7 liter lung capacity which would be great for playing tuba!!!!!

I found, when I started studying with Jake, that developing a good sound on the mouthpiece alone was one of the best things he taught me. Playing your solos etc on the mpc alone, with good sound, dynamic contrast, articulation and the other things which go to make a good sounding, musical performance can be one of the few "shortcuts" to good playing.

It is not just the buzzing that counts - it is the fact that you must have your musical brain trained and engaged to perform well on the mpc alone. As Jake often said - "become a mouthpiece virtuoso".

Along the line of great players not necessarily being the greatest teacher; Bud Herseth would have been one of the greatest trumpet players of all time BUT, his second trumpet co worker, Vince Chicowickz was by far the better teacher when it came to teaching how to play. Bud was fantastic to learn from by imitation, but he had not developed the pedagogical skills which Vince had. Of course, Vince was a pretty damned fine player as well!

As a person develops as a player and teacher it is good to gain exposure to different methods and teachers and pick the best from each. Fill your tool kit with more than just the simple hammer, screw driver and crescent wrench. As Bloke once said BUY CALLIPERS..........

[swillafew]

I saw Vincent Cichowicz teach a clinic, and off the horn buzzing was the utilized to a stunning and entirely positive effect on the students who participated. Every level of player played better after using the mouthpiece alone.

Edward Kleinhammer devoted a whole chapter to it in his book, and between the two men, they made a beautiful description of the benefits of this practice.

I think the trumpet clinic had the BERP, but it was not the fundamental part of the lesson.

[happyroman]

I thought some of you might like to hear what Allen Vizzutti has to say about the negitive effects of mouthpiece buzzing (around 2:08 into the video clip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRWgYWnLOc" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Mr. Vizutti is a great trumpet player, but he's not confused, he's simply wrong. The air DOES NOT produce the tone. The air is a fuel supply that allows the lips to vibrate the various pitches. It is the vibration of the lips, fueled by the air, that makes the sound. You can blow air through a trumpet (or any other wind instrument for that matter) and if the lips (or reeds) do not vibrate, there will be no sound (other than the whooshing sound of the air moving). The instrument simply amplifies the pitch being vibrated by the lips into the mouthpiece.

I do know that trumpets are different from other brass instruments in the application of buzzing on the mouthpiece. Mr. Chikowitz had his students use an extension attached to their mouthpieces when buzzing because there were issues associated with the trumpet mouthpiece being too short. My understanding was that without the extension (about three or four inches) trumpet players would not be able to produce the full range of pitches.

[OffuttTubaGuy]

I believe that the point of his discussion (see 5:40 in the video clip) is that the lips will vibrate with a correct lip aperture and a good supply of air, producing a quality sound. After watching this, I tested his theory not only on tuba, but on all of the brass instruments, and was very surprised by the results. He is right on.

While mouthpiece buzzing might be a useful tool, his demonstration changed my thinking about good sound production. I no longer see it as a "buzz that is amplified by the horn" as many people teach. It is really the balance between airstream, lip tension, and the natural resistance of the instrument, where the only result is the vibration of the lips.

What might be confusing is that he is speaking mainly about having a relaxed embouchure and blowing a good airstream, while avoiding a discussion about the lips. He obviously understands that it is the vibration of the lips that produces the sound.

[tubajazzo]

Buzzing a trumpet mouthpiece is a lot more like playing a trumpet than buzzing a tuba mouthpiece is like playing a tuba...

that is the truth for me. If I buzz on the tuba mouthpiece alone, the whole setting of lips, jaws and oral cavity needed to produce a good buzz sound is one thing. If I take this same embouchure setting to the tuba, then the sound is no more as it should be, especially in the low register. I have to open up my jaws much more an make my oral cavity and throat form an AAWW kind of sound. With this setting I could never produce a good buzz on the mouthpiece alone. Could happen that this is different for other persons.

Gerd

[Lectron]

buzzing is a good exercise...So is reading load with a wine cork between your lips
Your working your muscles, like going to the gym......

Neither should be confused with the position of lips/yaw when playing your instrument