Dixieland Sousaphone

[Manituba]

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good sousaphone to play in a Dixieland band?

Due to restructuring of our band (CF Transformation), our concert band is now gone and it will be my first time not playing in a concert band in 20 years. The good news is that my full time job will be Brass Quintet and Dixieland band.

But I have never played on a sousaphone before. I need an instrument that plays well and can authentically be used in a Dixie band.

Any recommendations would be helpful.

Thanks,
Chris

[Donn]

But I have never played on a sousaphone before. I need an instrument that plays well and can authentically be used in a Dixie band.

Have you been playing this music with your regular tuba? If you have any preferences there, they'll probably translate to sousaphone. I think my Conn 40K plays well and would be authentic as they come, but it plays like the big contrabass it is, and if I found myself back in a band like that I might wish for something that plays a little more like a bass tuba. How big is the band? One trombone? Is there an electric piano (please, say "no".)

[Manituba]

I’m looking for something that has a great sound, is easy to play and doesn’t weigh too much.

I’m currently using a PT-6 that I used in concert band. I find the sound is too big/broad for the group and I’d be more comfortable playing jazz on a Bb instrument in any event.

The group has no piano as they wish to remain portable (to roam around during gigs). We have a front line of clarinet, trumpet, alto sax, tenor sax, and trombone, with me and a drummer as the rhythm section.

Thanks,
Chris

[imperialbari]

Eb - Reynolds (rare, and - unfortunately - *never* seen with more than 3 valves...but a *killer* Eb sousaphone)

They must have appeared on web marketplaces, as I have 4 samples documented in photos.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

But I have never played on a sousaphone before. I need an instrument that plays well and can authentically be used in a Dixie band.

Have you been playing this music with your regular tuba? If you have any preferences there, they'll probably translate to sousaphone. I think my Conn 40K plays well and would be authentic as they come, but it plays like the big contrabass it is, and if I found myself back in a band like that I might wish for something that plays a little more like a bass tuba. How big is the band? One trombone? Is there an electric piano (please, say "no".)

As much as I like the playing properties of my Conn 40K, as little I will recommend it for strolling around. The combined weight of the heavy pre-WWII Conn brass sheet metal and the extra valve loop is not for human shoulders. The Eb 28K is lighter, and the BBb 14K still is a great contrabass, also in sound.

Klaus

[Donn]

As much as I like the playing properties of my Conn 40K, as little I will recommend it for strolling around. The combined weight of the heavy pre-WWII Conn brass sheet metal and the extra valve loop is not for human shoulders. The Eb 28K is lighter, and the BBb 14K still is a great contrabass, also in sound.

This goes to show how important it is to try a sousaphone yourself, as it has to suit you on a physical level as well as meet your musical requirements. My feeling about the 40K is just the opposite - I haven't minded carrying it, slender fellow that I am, but its playing properties weren't where I wanted to be for a Dixieland act. An Eb or smaller Bb might have worked out better, but instead I fell off the tuba wagon and went off with a bass saxophone.

[iiipopes]

Nobody has mentioned a rip-roarin' King 1250. With the small bore, outdoors it can get some really good projection walkin' up and down the French Quarter.

In short, all souzys are good for Dixieland, with the right player, and none of them are good for Dixieland with the wrong player.

I have played a King 1250, a Conn Cavalier, an Olds fiberglass, a Conn 20K, a Conn fiberglass (can't remember the model -- probably 36K), briefly tried a new Jupiter (don't even consider the stock mouthpiece -- get something with a good funnel to keep it from "sizzling" out), and probably others over the years I have forgotten about. I could get them all to walk a good line, but for Dixieland, as opposed to regular concert band outdoor work, I'm thinking that, all else being equal, a King .687 bore Eb would be a great horn if you could pick and choose. But they're all great with the right player.

[Dan Schultz]

Being and 'old guy' who prefers to sit and it's remotely interested in strolling Dixieland... I play a 4V King bell-front tuba for that type of music. However... IF I was looking for a comfortable AND playable sousa I would go for a Conn 36K (yeah, it's plastic!). If I wanted to add a little 'sizzle' to it, I would find a 14K brass bell. That would be my logical choice simply because they play at a tolerable lever and are in abundant supply. My second choice would be a King/Reynolds/Olds (pretty much the same thing) pre-80's plastic sousa. I don't know what sort of resins they made those things out of but they were harder and more resonant that most of the other plastic sousas of the day.

[David Richoux]

I have been playing Traditional Jazz ("Please don't call it Dixie" in the San Francisco area since 1978 and I have used a variety of 3 and 4 valve BBb Tubas, Helicons, and Sousaphones - depending on playing conditions: indoors or out, amped or not, style of band, and length of gig.
My "Go To Horns" are a 4 valve BBb Conn (1929-ish) Sousaphone for New Orleans Brass Band style and any large hall gigs, and a Yamaha YBB 621 (actually a CC that has been extended) for any smaller playing situations (and rehearsals.)
The 4th valve pipe on the Conn was not well placed for my personal diaphragm so I had it re-shaped at Best Music Repair in Oakland - now it is only a weight issue for gigs over three hours. I probably could do any gig with a 3 valve horn, but I really like having the 4th.

[David Richoux]

I have been playing Traditional Jazz ("Please don't call it Dixie"...

...and let's *always* show reverence towards our "art"...

bloke "dixie-schmixie...trad-glad...Where's my check? "

Maybe you missed the stupid winkie smile face thing at the end of the quote...?

:Shock:But anyway, If I were a serious tubist, depending totally on my performances to survive I might have a different attitude about it, but I ain't, and I don't. There are a lot of people that listen to me play (and who listened to my radio show for 24 years) who really hate the term "Dixieland" - others don't care as much, but if you explore my playlists on KFJC.org I think you will see that I don't hold tight to the "Traditional Jazz" label.


(And BTW, that picture is of a horn that I do not use on "perfessional gigs.")

[J.c. Sherman]

I like Kings for Dixieland. I use a 2340 recording BBb for 7 part groups or larger. I currently use my Boosey Eb for small groups, but used to use a King Eb Sousaphone (which I never should have sold - it was awesome!), and have used my King BBb sousa a few times. I'll now be using my little teeny King Eb tuba with a strap.

Kings have a great sound for Dixieland

J.c.S.

[EdFirth]

I played in New Orleans from 78' to 82' in everything from Pete Fountain's Half Fast Walking club to One Mo' Time the musical King sousaphones sound good and are easy to play but they back up [for me at least] when you try to play loudly . I always thought it was due to the sharp bends in the leadpipe to accomodate the tuning slide . The Cleveland horns are King student models and the tuning is after the valves and they are spectacular . I bought one from the New Orleans Police Band choosing it over a King which they were also selling . Lee Stofer is redoing it now and it will eventually be for sale . Unless he keeps it for himself . When I came to Florida I did buy a King which was cool because I play a King tuba and could put the bell on the sousaphone and play it as a raincatcher but when I used it in the World Band I couldn't really honk it and ended up playing the Rat's Conn 14K which was great . So I guess my answer to your question would be a 14K as they are plentiful although sadly not being made now . Dillon Music has one on the website now. Point of possible interest , my last sousaphone was a Conn 40K that played fantastically . But weighed a ton so I ended up selling it to Harry Conick for John Allred to play on for their one second line tune per show . Good Luck wit it ! Ed

[David Richoux]

...etc...(And BTW, that picture is of a horn that I do not use on "perfessional gigs.")

If ya dish out the tongue-in-cheek remarks, ya gotta be able to take 'em too. :D

------------------------------------------------------

yeah...I've encountered those (with something stuck up their exit door) who are "traditional jazz" snobs. Curiously, they never seem to be the strongest player in the band.

bloke "out dixie-et-al check-chasin' today from 8 to 5"

What, you couldn't detect my mock outrage in the first post?

Anyway, around here it is usually not the musicians who are the "Trad Nazis" - seems like there are always a few audience members taking notes during performances and stepping up to complain about some perceived "lack of accuracy" after the set.

That's Jazz!

[pwhitaker]

I am currently using an older Miraphone 186 4u BBb with a detachable recording bell for outdoors and a Rudy Meinl 5/4 BBb for indoors. I used a sousaphone for about 35 years with various trad groups but have become very enamored with the "German" sound for this type of music in the past 4 years.

At one time I used a 5 valve 381S Yamaha Eb for about a year with my current group and it also fit in pretty well. Just find a horn or horns that are comfortable and produce the sound you want - which is true for most venues.

This is what the Rudy sounds like in a bluesy tune:
http://216.198.229.111/music/howlongblues.wma" target="_blank

[iiipopes]

Indeed. I also have a recording bell, but I still have to get the tenon so I can use my 186 on similar gigs, if the occasion is right.

Hey pwhitaker-- try a PT34 mouthpiece outdoors with the 186 recording bell. You can put a lot of air through it, get really good presence and immediacy of response, and it can get through the runs, slurs, half-valve glissandi and other intonations to really pop out well.

[Donn]

seems like there are always a few audience members taking notes during performances and stepping up to complain about some perceived "lack of accuracy" after the set.

What is their standard for accuracy - are you supposed to be like Turk Murphy, Kid Ory, ...?

I'd like to get back into something of this nature, but indeed I'm not sure "Dixieland" is really the word for what would work for me. Does it matter what you call it? Well, sure it does! Try calling it "death metal" and see how that works out. If there are audiences that will show up for traditional jazz, but not for dixieland (and I assume there are), I'd be very interested to know what the difference is in their minds.

[David Richoux]

seems like there are always a few audience members taking notes during performances and stepping up to complain about some perceived "lack of accuracy" after the set.

What is their standard for accuracy - are you supposed to be like Turk Murphy, Kid Ory, ...?

I'd like to get back into something of this nature, but indeed I'm not sure "Dixieland" is really the word for what would work for me. Does it matter what you call it? Well, sure it does! Try calling it "death metal" and see how that works out. If there are audiences that will show up for traditional jazz, but not for dixieland (and I assume there are), I'd be very interested to know what the difference is in their minds.

I have not been able to figure that out in 25 years! I called my radio show "The Jazz Parade" and I felt free to play not only "Hard Core Traditional Jazz" like you can hear on http://www.redhotjazz.com but also Dixieland, Ragtime, New Orleans Brass Bands, Marching Bands, Big Band Swing (hot and sweet,) Western Swing, early Blues, Jugbands, Novelty and period Comedy. I am sure I lost some purist "Mouldy Figgs" every once in a while, but this kind of music was getting hard to find on broadcast radio (long before the Internet and satellite radio could provide similar programs.)

As for my jazz band - just got this review from a performance we did a few weeks ago:

The bio description (last month) of And That’s Jazz … “Chicago-style”
may have been misinterpreted by some of our members who
chose not to attend. Gene Maurice plays a very early version
of the Chicago style, which would have satisfied those who
prefer a New Orleans style. Nevertheless we had a
very decent attendance, which Gene’s band well deserved,
because it is a very good band indeed.
Gene’s band benefits from long-term regular gigs. Accordingly they
get things right from the first note, their tempos don’t wander and
they play some of the more sophisticated material that cannot be
executed well without plenty of practice. We were struck with their
very tasteful rendition of “Sobbin’ Blues” (more usually played by
pro bands), a very effective “Chimes Blues,” and a particularly
enthralling version of “The Mooch.” Several musicians in the
audience stopped by my table to compliment the band. The music was
excellent for listening, and our dance floor was consistently full.
Many thanks, Gene, for a great afternoon...

(the performance was for the New Orleans Jazz Club of Northern California - they have been presenting local bands (plus national and international bands on tour) since the mid 1960s - an audience of very knowledgeable jazz fans, dancers and musicians. We have played there many times, but maybe they saw the words "Chicago Style" and thought it might be "Dixieland!")

[Manituba]

A "concert tuba" is not an option. I'm definitely looking for a sousaphone.

There's a nice silver 14K on ebay right now, unfortunately the military will not buy items off ebay.

Any chance someone knows how to get in touch with the seller?

[rocksanddirt]

I think for many of the 'trad' v. dixie fans the difference is the performance expectation. the serious trad fans are looking for some kind of serious jazz performance of early early jazz. similar to the fans of 'period' instrument use in some kinds of renaisance/early classical genres.

imo, most people are looking to hear quality playing of fun and interesting music (of course that means a million different things also).

[rocksanddirt]

A "concert tuba" is not an option. I'm definitely looking for a sousaphone.

There's a nice silver 14K on ebay right now, unfortunately the military will not buy items off ebay.

Any chance someone knows how to get in touch with the seller?

try the ask a question feature?