Conn 1 Mouthpiece

[TUbajohn20J]

I'm still looking for one..can't find one ANYWHERE. I've got a Conn 2 but I want the bigger one. can anyone help me out or if you have an old one sitting around somewhere??? I would definitely buy it from you! thanks

[hbcrandy]

They seem to be rather rare. I have one that I bought on Ebay. I had Dan Oberloh very artfully restore it. Unfortunately, I do not want to sell it. An alternative, if it is still made, is the large Conn Helleberg mouthpiece. It is the same dimension as the Conn 1 without the thicker metal.

[cjk]

...An alternative, if it is still made, is the large Conn Helleberg mouthpiece. It is the same dimension as the Conn 1 without the thicker metal.

My sincerest apologies, but this is incorrect. A Conn 1 has the same inner dimensions as a Conn Chief.

[hbcrandy]

Bloke:

I believe you are accurate about the Conn 2 equaling the 7B Helleberg. During the modern period, Conn did produce a large Helleberg, the 7B being the smaller. I used the larger Conn Helleberg during my reign of terror as a student at the Philadelphia Musical Academy. Paul Krzywicki told me that the large Conn Helleberg and the Conn 1 were the same inner dimensions. I thought that the Conn Chief was an older mouthpiece that is not made anymore by Conn. Is it not possible that the Conn Chief = Conn 1 = Large Conn Helleberg?

[Alex C]

Without intending insult to anyone, I have a Conn 1 and it is not the same as the Conn Helleberg originally produced in the 1960's which I also still have. The 60's Helleberg is obviously bigger.

I do not know if it's the same as a Chief or not. The Conn 1 is clearly a funnel shaped mouthpiece (a Helleberg characteristic) but, again, not the same as the 60's "original" Helleberg.

The Conn 2 was cut on the same cup mandrel as the real original (1930's) Conn Helleberg. But used a different blank than the Helleberg. I won't comment on the Conn 7B = Conn 2 topic.

[Donn]

So for all the copies of currently available Bach and Conn mouthpieces, not one copy of the Chief or Conn 1?

They're good enough mouthpieces, I've thought of making up my own line of copies with the full line (as far as I know) - Donn 1, 2, and 3. I've read reports that there was a Conn 4 tuba mouthpiece, but haven't seen one. The 2 is of course very familiar, presumably in current production with a slightly different outside shape. 3 is more or else in the same class as the Schilke 62. I'm probably not really going to do this, but I'll put up a kickstart page anyway if you all insist. Great mouthpieces.

On internal shape similarities -- note that there's more to a mouthpiece than just a cup, specifically small details in the throat and back bore could make some difference. The 7B and Conn 2 seem very similar in the cup (the 7B seems a hair more conical, but that could be an illusion), but for me they play a little different.

[sailn2ba]

I have a Holton Revelation 52 identical to that in the photo. Picked it up while in the Army in the 1950s. Never thought of it as being similar (inside) to my Conn Helleberg as it looks so different on the outside. I'll have to play with it a little.

[sailn2ba]

Hmm. on a quick try, the Holton 52 does not blow very differently from the Conn Helleberg or the Laskey 30H. It does, however, have a different taper on the receiver end. . . It only goes 1/2" into my "american" receiver (Helleberg goes 1") and goes up to the ferrules in my larger "Euro" receiver (Laskey goes 1 1/8"). It's not out of round, either. The mpc is in excellent condition overall.

[Donn]

The Conn 1 is clearly a funnel shaped mouthpiece (a Helleberg characteristic)

The Conn 1 and the Conn Chief are very similar in diameter, rim , and internal contour. I have a Conn Chief and have compared it to a Conn 1.

To my eyes, sense of touch, measuring gadgets, and mouth, I believe it's fairly safe to say the the old Conn "Chief", the later Conn 1, and the roughly-same-era-as-the-Conn-1 Holton "Revelation" 52 (though all QUITE DIFFERENT on the outside) are all *extremely* similar on the inside.

So the Chief and 52 could be said to be "Helleberg" mouthpieces in the more general sense that would include original, the 7B etc.? (and more strictly than the most general sense, inasmuch as some makers use it as a descriptive term for mouthpiece cups that are much less funnel shaped than the Conns.)

[sailn2ba]

Uhmm, geez, don't quit! This mpc thing is one of the frontiers. I'm looking down the throats of these 3 (Conn Helle (120, I think), Laskey 30H, and Holton 52), and they are similar, but successively deeper, in that order. Under pressure, the Holton blows loudest, and it goes down to the CCC. Not sure about control, because I just started this thing today. Has anyone else pursued this?

[Michael Bush]

As if he needed any help from little ol' me, I second Bloke's motion.

I have a Holton 52 and have and have had any number of hellebergs and helleberg style mouthpieces. They are not alike in any way. Name any aspect of these mouthpieces, and they are different in that way.

(Well, most of them are made of brass and plated with silver, so there's that.)

[Donn]

So ... the Conn 1 is not particularly funnel shaped? Pardon me if that's obvious, but the one person has one and has spoken directly to this point says it is funnel shaped, and then the Holton 52's said to be just like it. I am so confused!

[Donn]

the point being that an overwhelmingly more noticeable characteristic of the "Chief-like" mouthpieces is their VERY large size.

All right ... it would be interesting to know how big the Conn 1 is then. Surfed around for it a bit, but ... Ah, found it! in an August 2008 post,

Conn 1
32.7mm (1.287"). Throat 9 mm

... well, not a wide mouthpiece by today's standards, but that's a large bore, for sure. And everyone agrees it's quite deep, though how deep, we can't say.

Or is it possible that there were two distinctly different Conn mouthpiece designs labelled "1"? One that's a drilled out version of the old 7B-size Helleberg, dimensions above, and another that was really big and like the Holton 52?

[Michael Bush]

And everyone agrees it's quite deep, though how deep, we can't say.

My Holton 52 is ~1 3/4" (~45mm) deep.

Edit: I never use this MP and didn't really know where it was when I went to measure it. Since I had it at hand I just stuck it in a tuba and turned on the tuner. It would take some getting used to, to play up to pitch with it.

[Donn]

I'm still looking for one..can't find one ANYWHERE. I've got a Conn 2 but I want the bigger one.

Still want one? Not that anyone appears to be selling theirs, I'm just starting to question whether my hypothetical line of Conn revival mouthpieces is going to need to include this one. It doesn't seem to have much in common with the others (not recognizably the bigger brother of Conn 2), apparently would take a different blank, and I sure wouldn't want one myself. These mouthpieces have to be big money makers.

[gionvil]

Was the Holton 52 the mouthpiece that came with the horn with the Holton 345 in the sixties or seventies?