Hindemith text

[james]

Todd,
I know.
Hindemith didn't call it a "cadenza" the same way he didn't create a website and label the piece a duo-sonata.

This could show evidence it is a tuba sonata...with tuba as the solo instrument, but it is a DUO SONATA.

Re-read my posts: My goal was never to be AGAINST the piece being a DUO SONATA. In fact, I stated that here:

I would be more in agreement (say, 80-20) with the theory that this is a duet.

My disagreement was with you stating that the piano is the SOLO voice.

The more I play this piece with the solo instrument the more and more I like it, and I am a real big fan of Hindemith's music already.

-James

*edit for space

[tubashaman2]

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[tubashaman2]

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[ginnboonmiller]

Bubbacox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_music" target="_blank" target="_blank

Its wikipedia. Now, listen to the middle section of the hindemith mvt 2. You have the piano playing the same complex rhythm, the notes slowly change, the tubas notes only change on the last figure with the return of the A theme. It might not be minimalism, but it was a direct thought in that direction. That is over 1/3 of the movement, which one could analyze A B A Coda

A section--the beginning and stuff with all the off beats
B section--the "minimalistlike section"
Coda--the last line, aka the hardest part of the movement aside from those hard off beats (off beats are hard though)

Listen, kid, wikipedia is not a great source for information about minimalism. LaMonte Young, or Phil Niblock, or Howard Skempton, or Alvin Lucier can help you figure this out. But playing something three times doesn't make it 30 years ahead of it's time. Nor minimalist. The Hindemith tuba sonata is not a proto-minimalist exploration of repetition.

Say that again, since we're talking about minimalism:

The Hindemith tuba sonata is not a proto-minimalist exploration of repetition.

In fact, say it, say 150 times to yourself, right now. It will serve the function of showing you the way minimalism works, and might also get it to sink in with you that the Hindemith tuba sonata is not a proto-minimalist exploration of repetition.

[tubashaman2]

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[ginnboonmiller]

Well though Wikipedia might not be a scholary source, it is readily available online to the person I intended it for. Instead of citing the grove which bubbacox might not have access to, I feel the definition is a good definition

That's nice, but...

Never mind.

[Rick Denney]

B section--the "minimalistlike section"

Is that what this is about? daadadadadadadadadadaaaaadaaaaadaaaaaa repeated four or five times while the pianist is lighting her hair on fire and running in circles (oops, not circles, that would be minimalist)?

To one who has listened to Drumming in its entirety (two LPs), and who bought Glassworks when you were in diapers (and even this is a little too directional for minimalism), this is not minimalist.

Minimalism in my experience is about process, not progress, and changes in the music happen as a result of cycles within the repetition that work gradually. There's nothing that's process-based in Hindemith, and certainly nothing that happens gradually on a different cycle that the basic tempo.

It's the last three measures of the second movement that eat my lunch. But then I'm not even up to Blokian "pretty good".

Rick "who still has Einstein on the Beach in vinyl" Denney

[tubashaman2]

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[LoyalTubist]

An Outdoor Overture was originally written for a small school orchestra in Brooklyn that had NO tuba player and, hence, no tuba part in the orchestra version. The band arrangement is the bass part from the orchestra in which the section is divided in half... half playing the theme while the other half plays off-beats... There are many other pieces in which the tuba is called upon to do that...

One standard military march, March of the Illini by Harry L. Alford features this quite prominently. It's a lot of fun!

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Can I rephrase what I meant as minimalist like ideals, it does change slightly here and there.

Please do (or was that sentence the rephrasing?). I asked initially what you thought about the second movement was minimalist and it took until the bottom of page 3 of this thread to find out you meant the repeating section in the middle. Did you mean a strict repetition four times is an "early example of minimalism"? I truly hope that near the end of your undergraduate degree program you realize how preposterous that sounds.

And for those of you who say the piece is not technical, please explain to me the trick to performing the last line of the 2nd movement (as Mr. Denney stated).

It's not technical. The only trick to learning the last lick of the second movement is to slow it down with a metronome until you can play it perfectly, then click up the speed one click at a time until you reach tempo. It should take you less than an hour to get the lick in your fingers and in your chops that way. Don't practice (and reinforce) mistakes.

Also, recitiative is not the easiest thing I have ever played, and what about all those off beats in the 2nd movement. Tubas playing off beats?!?!? One part in Copland's An Outdoor Overture, the low brass have off beats and the horns have down beats, we spent alot of time in band last year on that....ALOT harder than it looks.

I hope the "recitiative" isn't the easiest thing you have ever played...that would just be silly. However, it shouldn't be "hard" to a graduating senior pursuing a degree in music performance and talking about graduate school. Come on, man.

I gave you some advice on how to approach the off-beats...please re-read my post near the bottom of page two. Make all eight bars of off-beats one big phrase. Don't breathe between each note. Disregard my earlier advice to only breathe once or twice...it's very soft and you won't need to breathe for the entire stretch of repeated Bb's...breathe after the last one before the A. You will tend to rush, so stay on the "back side" of the beat. Play the notes a little longer than you think you should. If you were only an average-to-good doubler on jazz bass this would be easy for you...shucky darn!

[MartyNeilan]

James,

Are you aware of the secret "relationship" between Hindemith and Eisenhower?



hint: compare these Eisenhower stat's to those of Hindemith

Compare their stats?
or
Compare their tatts!
I think I have finally found the topic for my dissertation! (assuming I ever write one)

[eupher61]

Was Ike a minimalist??

[imperialbari]

Wasn’t Ike a hair older?

K

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Somehow, I think if a poster has made himself unpopular with his posts, no matter what incarnation he/she chooses to become, won't the end result be the same too? Hasn't that happened in the two versions of this poster so far?

Three. How soon we forgot old "TubaMaster2005" aka "Ben Cunnings."

[imperialbari]

I heard that he kept the same Hindemith Dollar in his pocket for over ten years!

If it was the specimen illustrated, Ike himself hardly would have been able to take it out of his pocket.

K

[Tuba Guy]

Does anyone have/know of a recording (preferably for free) of just the piano part for this piece, especially the 2nd movement?
There are a few places where I want to hear where the harmonic motion goes and how it all works, but my piano skills are...well, let's just say that it's a good thing I'm not a piano major. I can't really hear the part very well on the recordings that I have either (the parts I'm most interested in are with the solo playing on the downbeats, and where the solo plays on the backbeats).

[Biggs]

Also in band we are playing Lollapolloza by john Adams as I have mentioned before. It is without a doubt minimalistic.

Incorrect.

On a tangent, my band is playing this as well. Do I smell a battle of the bands?

[The Jackson]

When you guys are done, remember to turn off the light, please.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Done now, I suppose...the usual deletion of posts has begun. I wonder if we'll get a nice send-off like last time???

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Check your PMs, Todd. Where ya be at, baby?

Got it, thanks. Fascinating. Kind of busy at work this morning...checking in rarely between ***-busting.

Todd, feverish