MUSIC ED VS. PERFORMANCE

[Skaman]

I'm going to college next year and i am confused on which way i should go. I really wanna perform rather than teach. what are every ones opinions or experiences?
thanks

[sinfonian]

The obvious is that with a Music Ed degree you can perform or teach but with a Performance degree you will not be certified to teach in primary or secondary schools.

[rocksanddirt]

I agree with Bloke, but would go a bit further. If your lifes passion is only in the performance of orchestral music, then follow bloke's path for a performance degree.

If your lifes passion is teaching music to others, look seriously at music ed.

if anything else, could be described as important to you....don't do one of those two majors at a college or university.

Play your horn. network and scrounge for gigs (paying and non-paying), until you are the first or second person called in your entire city/state when someone wants a tuba/bass player for any type of performance. And you won't get to be that person only through your playing, but through being a professional (on time, ready to perform, helpful with the overall performance, pleasant to be around, etc).

[Uncle Buck]

Bloke (who's avatar from yesterday I enjoyed a lot more than today's) makes a lot of good points. One point he mentions that is worth repeating by itself is:

If you can't get one of the top conservatories to pay your way to come study there, you probably should be considering something other than music performance as a career.

Sorry if that sounds blunt, but it is a truth that is better faced sooner than later.

[Matt G]

If you must go to college, get a degree in something that you could do as a 8-5 job and enjoy it. Bloke's advice about getting a performing degree based on admissions is okay advice, but there have been players that have recently got top spots without having the best undergraduate diploma (master's are of that "pedigree", however).

BigDale offers some solid advice on getting certification in another field. Math, science, and English education degrees are fairly bankable, even in tougher economic times. Furthermore, many places are still trying to fill positions for mathematicians and engineers, even in this economy. These jobs are six-figure-after-five-years types of jobs. I found it interesting the amount of amateur musicians (with good chops) came out of R&D firms like Raytheon. Some of these fellows probably could have been decent music-only earners, but instead decided to make more money and have more free time.

[Bill Troiano]

This may not be the best advice, but it's what happened to me. I went to school for mus. ed. Halfway through my first year, I became super inspired by my tuba teacher and decided I would rather perform in an orchestra, and, that I did not want to teach kids. However, I stayed in the mus. ed. program due to the strong advice from my tuba teacher and my dad (not the same people). I practiced my butt off and went to grad school for performance. Then, I went to IU to hang out with Harvey and learn from him - lessons and life! I took some symphony auditions and din't get anywhere. I went home and was offered a one year elementary band teaching position in my home town. I hadn't even applied, but the director of music knew I was around. I took it, mostly because my father was getting antsy about me being around with no job. I really got into the job, which surprised me very much. I enjoyed the kids, the other teachers around me and the salary. Plus, I hooked up with other musicians and began to get tuba gigs. Guy Lombardo called me the following Spring, so I left the one year position with 2 months to go and joined Guy. Two years later, I left the band (after Guy died) and got another one year teaching position. I was on LI again and I continued to network and get playing gigs. During that year, the NY Phil job opened up. I sent in a tape and was invited to the audition. Warren Deck beat me (duh) - probably destroyed me, but I didn't hear him play. I did hear Toby Hanks play because he went in just before me. I went in, but I knew I wasn't going to play better than Toby. I actually played badly. I drove home depressed wondering, now what! Plus, it was snowing, I had a fever (which had nothing to do with my not playing well), my car had no heat and I was in traffic on the LIE (Long Island's longest parking lot.) Bad day all around.

The next day I was back in school at my one year teaching gig and I realized that this is really cool. I was really getting into it. I continued to play and get gigs on LI. I got a permanent teaching job after that. 32 years later, I retired. I continue to teach and get gigs on LI. And, I lived happily ever after. THE END!

So, I would say, get the mus. ed. degree. You never know and you can always still play ( if anyone wants to hire you!!!)

[EuphoniousJoy]

These are all good points. I am currently in your situation (somewhat); going to school for Education and performance. Some schools will offer a Double major type program that overlap quite a bit. You may look into that. Education will not pay super well and everyone knows it, but you can get a job almost anywhere. Performance is a tough gig to get into. You may want to perform most in your life, and you might be able to! But I would personally suggest to get the ed degree, you may decide you enjoy it once you do it a bit.
It would be worth looking into schools that offer a conjoined program for both education and performance.
That's what I am studying right now, I am pursuing a double major in Euphonium Performance and Music Education...
Just a couple thoughts.

[Plugo]

i would suggest you to looking into a double major. if you are good enough, you will always find employement in performance. if you are not good enough, a degree wont be able to help you at all.

i regret not thinking through and settled into performance and then reality struck down on me; and i ended settling in on a diferrent career.
it took me 10 years away from music because i got really frustrated with my music studies.


if you love music, choosing another career doesnt mean that you wont be able to play.

i believe pat sheridan has a degree in marketing, so he is a great example.

[Skaman]

thanks alot guys i really appreciate your advice.

[bort]

I decided to be a major in mathematics instead of music. Though I'm curious what would have happened otherwise, I don't regret the decision.

Throughout college, I was able to still stay quite active performance-wise, and even got to take some free lessons from Toby Hanks and one of his tuba grad students as part of a pedagogy class. I'd also get some strange looks like "What is your major?" when I'd say something other than music, but after some years removed from school, I've quickly found that it's hardly an unusual story (especially with other, more abundant instruments like trumpet or clarinet -- lots of great players who make a living in something other than music).

[Geotuba]

I decided to be a major in mathematics instead of music.

In my undergraduate days 7 of the principals in the Oxford University Orchestra (including myself) were reading maths (that's English for "being a mathematics major" ) rather than music. There IS a connection I'm sure... (in the tuba case that probably comes from having to count mega-bars rests - or visiting mega bars during the rests - or something)

[tubamirum]

My first teacher made custom orthopedic shoes because his father said to get a day job and not depend on playing a horn for a living. That was in the days one could make a living being a musician and my teacher was a fine musician.

[yoink]

When I was looking at music schools one talk about jobs after graduation. They said if you get a Mus. Ed. degree and are willing to move then you will be able to get a job, Las Vegas builds about 4 new schools a year because they are growing so fast. They also said that about 1% of people with a performance degree get a job in performance. Think about how many tubas are in different ensembles, usually one or two. Look at how many collegiate tuba students there are in America, a surplus of players. I agree with most of the people on here and said get the ed degree and if you want to preform you still can, but you will be able to eat and have a house, not under a bridge.

One college I was looking at was telling me about when the tuba position was open for the Cleveland Symphony. They said it pays about 100K a year, I think, and they had 115 people come to audition, by invitation only. The local symphony, where I live, everyone has another job because they make a less than 20K playing there.

Look at what you seeing yourself doing in 20 years. If you see yourself working with children and teaching then get the ed degree, if you see sitting in the back of a Symphony then get the performance degree (Although I would still strongly suggest getting the ed degree). Do what will make you happy. Life will be a lot more fun later in life if you enjoy what you do.

[bort]

I decided to be a major in mathematics instead of music.

There IS a connection I'm sure...

Absolutely...though in my experience, I've run across WAY more tuba/other musicians who are engineers or comp-sci people than straight-up math majors. Yeah, sure...if you need to have some sort of direct application.

[Carroll]

I am a High School Band, Middle School BAnd and Elementary Music teacher. I am assigned to four student teachers per year. I used to recommend that everyone get an Ed degree, and those that want to play just practice... a lot. In the past dozen years or so I have changed my tune I have seen kids who are "too good" to teach and just take Ed classes to have a fall back. I DO NOT want you in front of kids unless you REALLY want to be there. There are few Mr. Holland situations in real life. Most performers just become bitter when they have to teach while waiting for their big break. I would rather they wait tables, or work construction, or sell retail. Do not put yourself in front of a class and spread vitriol!

On the other hand... a very good friend of mine earned a bachelor's and master's degree in euphonium performance. He has been in an adjunct position at an elementary school for the past 10 years, getting substitute (1/2 teacher's) pay. He is now in the process of earning an Ed certification. He was not going to teach. Now he is a very good teacher. I think he would have come to this place earlier had he really looked inward and thought through his true musical interests. He never wanted to be a military musician and there ain't much else for a euphonium player. Perhaps he will open up that baseball card shop he talked about, someday.

[SinNawlins]

in my case I loved performing but got practical and got an engineering degree to bring home a good paycheck. There are lots of opportunities to perform along the way but unless you already have wealth, you have to think about making a living and building some wealth and benefits for your own old age, which is likely inevitable unless you die early. Nationwide, there are very few performance slots that pay enough to live on, with one exception.
The exception is a US military band career. There are lots of opportunities for a young person, and the lifestyle and pay and benefits are very good, if you like that lifestyle. There is education mone available if qualified. Lots and lots of performances and you are treated very well. Retirement is early and generous with plenty of time in life remaining for other opportunities. I never thought of that when your age or might have gone that way, but it can be a great option for people who want to perform. If you want to perform and have a chance at making a decent living, consider a US military band career. Just my two cents

[TonyTuba]

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

[Arkietuba]

I am a performance major that switched from music ed. My decision wasn't easy as I do know I will have a much better chance at getting a job with an Ed degree as opposed to a performance degree.

I sat down with my professor last year (at the time, Dr. Ben Miles was here as a visiting professor) and he asked me what I wanted to do professionally. I knew I wanted to teach at some level, and gradually as the years went by I started to see myself as more of a college professor and not so much of a high school or middle school director. I thought I could do it, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked the idea. Dr. Miles told me, "You know when I was with (I think Marty Erickson) he said 'Ben, I just can't see you on that podium in front of a bunch of kids'...Matt, I can't see you doing that either". I told him that I really enjoyed the idea of being a college tuba professor and he told me that he has never used his Ed degree and that he could see me doing that if I worked hard enough.

I talked it over with some other professors here who I trust very much and who are very "pro music ed" and they all told me that if anyone could be a tuba performance major, it was me and they gave me their blessing. Then, my advisor (who had advised against it for a year) finally told me the same thing. So, I did it and I kinda "regret" it due to the economy as it is, but I can't see myself directing kids (other than in private lessons). Now, I've also thought about persuing a career in a military band as well if the job market isn't good at all.

Basically, my advice is start out as music ed since the classes are all the same music wise and shouldn't put you far behind if you do switch...then take some time and reflect and see if you really want to do education/performance. Also, consider how good you are.

[Arkietuba]

ew aob

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

I find this to be 100% accurate, at least at my school. There are SOOOO many music ed majors who either, don't think they need to practice or know their instrument well since they are "only band directors" or they are in the bottom of their studios. This angers me because they are going to be the folks teaching future musicians/educators. They don't see the value of knowing your instrument inside and out and how that relates to being a good band director. Heck, I thought my band directors were so good at their instruments and that made me want to be at their level. We had a student teacher my senior year of high school, from my current university, and he wasn't that great. He knew the motions and the text book way of directing, but he didn't know about musicality or how to make music in general (this was also true when he picked up an instrument). Anyways, just my 2 cents (in addition to yours, Tony).

[pierso20]

Do NOT get a mus ed degree unless you WANT to teach school bands. Mus ed degrees are not good fall back degrees. The job is so expansive that you need to seriously train and study it to even come close the having enough knowledge to do it well. There are too many bad music educators in the schools already. If you want to play, play. If you want a safety, double major in performance and business. If you can't handle a double major, you should just be a business major.

There has been a strange shift in music education. It used to be that musicians became band directors. Now, band nerds become band directors. Band directors are on the front line in the battle of the future of symphonic music. It would be helpful if more music educators loved music more, not just band, and were actually good at music.

In case you are thinking I am contradicting myself, hold on. Music education majors should be held to a higher standard of performance in college. If they can not play, they should not be allowed to earn the certificate. Very few places enforce a checks and balances for ed majors. A student needs to have the desire to be a good musician if they want to be a music teacher. It is a very important element.

I find much of this to be offensive and inaccurate.

First of all, all musicians will be teachers. ALL. I think that a music ed degree, while one may not be a "band director" as you call it (though I prefer the term 'music teacher' or 'band teacher'), getting an ed degree will teach you how to be a good teacher. Not just band teacher, but a teacher in general. And that is a benefit since we all know professional musicians teach to some extent. (I do agree with you though that one should not teach in the schools if they don't want to.....but everyone would benefit from an ed degree to some extent.)

Secondly, I DO NOT think that being a band teacher means that the teacher is less of a musician than "performance" majors. I think that many people currently in the collegiate system knows of many examples which contradict this. I am acquainted with many education majors who are very musical and perform at a level equal to or greater than many performance majors. And at many schools, education majors ARE held to a standard just as high as performance majors. In order to be a successful teacher, you must be a successful musician. A good school will prepare music educators by making them into great musicians. (yes, this isn't always the case, but good schools don't always prepare performance majors into being great musicians either).

Lastly, I think your assertion that band nerds become band directors is complete hogwash. I do NOT for one second believe that a majority of band teachers only love band music or that they are not good musicians. I am sure there are examples of those who are "failures" but I am also willing to bet that there are numerous examples of failures in the performance realm. I consider myself and many of my teacher friends very good musicians. Are teacher symphony caliber? Maybe not. However, or all the pro. players quality teacher caliber? Not all of them.

I think it is also important to note that band teachers will likely NOT perform to the same level of a performance major. But to put it into perspective, a professional performer spend much of his/her time practicing and performing. A teacher spend it teaching. There is no way for a teacher to perform at the level of a pro. performer with this lopsided time allotment.

I take my musicians ship very seriously. Does it always show in my playing? No. Do I work hard to teach my students how to be musicians? Yes. Does that make me a nerd? Well, then I welcome the opportunity to be one.