B&S pt-6 or miraphone 188?

[santosgs]

hey guys, I've been looking at the B&S pt-6 and miraphone 188 and i think their both pretty good but I wanna know your guys opinions, any ups and downs?

[UTSAtuba]

It's pretty funny this topic came up, since I've been thinking about the same thing recently. Sorry I don't have any great advice, but I've definitely heard great things about the 188. Can't go wrong with a Miraphone...well, mostly

[tubatom91]

My 188 has yet to fail me, in any situation I've been in. I have to put very little effort into playing it, by which I mean that there is very minimal slide pulling and lipping notes. It even has decent false tones! (If you really need them of course). It is quite ergonomically sound as well and is very comfortable to play. All slides are within reach (neglect the main slide). I have no complaints with my tuba. It would be nice to have a 6/4 CC or an F but this horn will fill in for me. As for the PT-6, I've never played one but the people that own them seem to be quite fond of them. You don't see too many of either model for sale much .

[UTSAtuba]

But hey, now that I think about it...: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19790" target="_blank

hehe

[santosgs]

that's a nice thread there UTSAtuba, according to that thread, it looks like the pt-6 would be better for me, because I'm planning on using it for mostly orchestras

[WoodSheddin]

pt6

[JB]

hey guys, I've been looking at the B&S pt-6 and miraphone 188 and i think their both pretty good but I wanna know your guys opinions, any ups and downs?

I have a lot of time with both under my belt -- Pt-6, hands down.
(Plus other Miraphones and bunches of PT horns...)

FWIW.

[Matt G]

I have played a few PT-6Ps. I owned a 188. I am not familiar with the PT-6 rotary version. You have been told the 188 is a better all-around horn. I agree with this. I also agree with the 188 having good intonation.

The PT-6Ps I played were "okay" in regards to intonation. Also, the PT-6Ps had a "change in character" in the low register. The sound got way more edgy with multiple valves in use. The sound was very rich (like a smaller "York" type of sound) until around low A or G and then seemed to get very direct. Almost like a 188!

One other aspect of these horns is out in the hall. I might expect the 'Fone to sound as big, if not bigger, out in a decent sized facility. I also like to get a sense of how horns like to get onto "tape" and the 'Fones seem to get on tape with less effort than many of the PT contrabasses. Meinl-Westons seem to get onto tape better also. Try a MW 2155 piston tuba if you get a chance. It might be the best compromise between the PT-6 and 188 sound and feel you can find.

[Matt G]

I forgot about the 5450. Also a good choice.

[NDSPTuba]

At TMEA I looked forward to playing the 188 after hearing such wonderful things about it on here. Upon first arriving at the exhibits I ran into the Custom Music display first so I played the PT-6P and PT-6 first, before making it to the Miraphone display. At the Miraphone display I played the 1291 first, then picked up the 188. After a few notes playing the 188, I more eager to put it down and pick up the 1291 again. I attributed it to being a rotary valved instrument that just blows differently, but I didn't have the same bad reaction to the PT-6 rotary version.

I have to add another nod to the 5450 ( THOR ). It was the best tuba there. Of the instruments you list, I'd have to give the nod to the PT-6 hands down. I didn't like the 188 at all.

James

[jeopardymaster]

I confess I've never tried either PT6 model - rotary or piston. From the appearance, though, I'm of the opinion that whoever designed the rotary horn had an Alex 163, a micrometer and a tape measure on hand. Those of you who have tried both of THOSE horns, how accurate is my mere eyeball assessment in regard to response, intonation and sound?

[cdatuba]

Opinions comparing pt6 vs. 291B?
Maybe not the thread teme, but interesting.....

[Wyvern]

I have in the past had a rotary PT-6 and 188 on trial and played with orchestras and bands. To me the PT-6 was a far better instrument hands down with good rich contrabass tuba tone, while I personally found the 188 sound rather bland. If in doubt about it, a double bass player made up my mind commenting "if you don't mind me saying, I don't think you sound so good on that tuba" after a rehearsal playing the 188!

In the end I tried the Neptune and immediately 'fell in love' - and the rest you could say is history

[Matt G]

I have in the past had a rotary PT-6 and 188 on trial and played with orchestras and bands. To me the PT-6 was a far better instrument hands down with good rich contrabass tuba tone, while I personally found the 188 sound rather bland. If in doubt about it, a double bass player made up my mind commenting "if you don't mind me saying, I don't think you sound so good on that tuba" after a rehearsal playing the 188!

In the end I tried the Neptune and immediately 'fell in love' - and the rest you could say is history

While I don't doubt your experience, I wonder if you had a chance to record the two out in the hall.

Reason being, I have played various tubas in groups and other brass section players or the bass players would make comments based on what they hear on stage. The PT-6 variants strike me as a horn that doesn't "get out" into the audience. I owned a piston Neptune, and I know that mine "got out" just like the 188 I owned did. I still remember some of the most positive feedback from section players coming during playing Academic Festival Overture on a YFB-621 and Meistersinger on a 5/4 Rudy. Both sounded great on stage. Neither got out to the floor. The 188 always got out to the floor. It strikes my just like horns that get onto tape well. I could crush a civic orchestra on a 2J. They might not know it on stage, but out front they would. The only horn that seemed to work in both the near and far situations was a "frankenstein" type of tuba with Holton valves, York (6/4) branches, and a Mirafone 190 bell. That horn sounded great just about everywhere.

On Topic:

OP, have you tried other 5/4 tubas?

[Wyvern]

I wonder if you had a chance to record the two out in the hall.

Alas, long before I had a digital recorder. I agree about how valuable recording out in the hall is to assessing tubas.

Jonathan "who has verification from recordings that his present tubas sound gets out to the floor"

[Gorilla Tuba]

I have owned both. I really like both! I am a huge fan of Mirafone 186 and 188s. Many have insisted that the Mirafones played stuffy... to me they didn't. With the right mouthpiece, I felt the Mirafone could do anything. That being said, I bought an ugly used PT6 several years ago and play it today. It ended my search for the right CC big tuba. It just sounds right to me and is easy for me to play.

Mirafone is the only tuba I would consider buying without trying in advance. But, having tried my PT6, it is better for me than any Mirafone. FWIW, most of my students who buy CC have bought B&S tubas... even though I generally recommend Mirafones as a first tuba purchase.

[Matt G]

There is also no model without a stinker or two examples.

Regarding the 188, all I can say is "Tommy Johnson."

That's true. I was fortunate enough to have a 188 with the person referenced as a previous owner. My 188 did play better than others, IMHO, but not so much that it seemed "magical".

[NDSPTuba]

The only way to make a valid comparison as to what "what makes it out into the hall" is for all tubas in question to be played in the same hall.

James " who thinks the hall has more to do with what gets out into it, then the tuba" Wester

[Wilco]

I'm still getting used to my 188. The sound seems not to carry and not very full from the players' point of view. The impression in the hall is totally different. The recording of last concert scared me actually. When I thought forte it was actually fortissomo . At some moments I totally buried the basstrombone . I promised myself to back-off more in order to keep thing tastefull People told me afterwards they could hear me very well**, it sounded better than my 1291 BBb (which sounds very full from the players' point of view).

BTW, I really like the clarity, efficiency and intonation!



** the concert hall is very 'difficult' because it's mostly dry and it kind of muffles the sound. Not a tuba - friendly hall. BTW large Bessons (BBb) are somehow allways heard, just don't like the monotomous (sp?), woofy, foggy sound.

[cdatuba]

Opinions comparing pt6 vs. 291B?
Maybe not the thread theme, but interesting.....

or better.....
compared with the renewed mira 190 called at miraphone website 90B....mmmmmm.....

opinions?
I think this two beasts never been compared before...( and they are in the same size, I think)