Music software advice

[hald]

Is there a favorite music notation software here? Favorite computer platform?

I've installed 3 different music notation programs so far. Two wouldn't run on a Vista desktop. One required numerous large downloads, reboots, and the video tutorials wouldn't play. One wouldn't allow window resizing or multiple windows. One wouldn't complete the install because it couldn't find a web server. The one that runs properly seems to be authorized for use on only one computer.
What programs are recommended?

[termite]

I use an old version of Sibelius for notation and have no problems.
For writing MIDI files nothing comes anywhere near the old Notator program on the Atari - the only problem is the hardware is too old and is starting to break down.

Regards

Gerard

[Dan Schultz]

About three months ago, I downloaded the demo of Finale 'PrintMusic'. It's a mid-range version of the Finale family that has scanning capabilities. I liked it even though it has a big learning curve. Sooo... I bought it. It runs about $100 retail but there are discounters on the web who sell it for less. I think I paid $74. It runs fine in Vista. So far no problems but don't be too confident regarding the scanning capabilities because you still have to go back in a make some edits for everything to work OK.

[bearphonium]

I've used Finale's Print Music for about a year (hobbiest only). It does have a steep learning curve, which I am still climbing, but overall seems to be a decent program. It has MIDI function, I just haven't used it yet.

[josh_kaprun]

While I don't run Vista on my computer, I have heard that the latest version of Finale runs fine on Vista.

Yes, Finale does have a rather steep learning curve, but if you take the time, it is worth it. Shoot, I have even made a business out of how well I know Finale (granted, it took me 5 years before I started doing it for money, but I wasn't exactly trying super hard to learn the program as fast as I could, just well enough to do whatever it was I needed to do at the time).

[FreeBandMusic]

I've used Encore for years, for marching band, brass quintet, and choral arrangements. I've never run into anything it won't handle. My version ( 4.5 ) runs under vista, so I'm sure the new version will as well. Best of all, it is VERY user-friendly; you can be doing productive work in a half hour. Print quality is equal to Finale. It will open multiple documents and cut and paste from one to another. My version will not allow main windows on multiple monitors, but it will let you stash toolbars and such on a second screen. There's a demo of the new version on their site, which I believe is gvox.com, or something similar.

John Thompson
See sample on FreeBandMusic.biz

[davidgilbreath]

Ditto re: Noteworthy

[BVD Press]

Depending upon what you are looking for, here are the two most popular products currently:

http://makemusic.com/notation_software.aspx

http://www.sibelius.com/products/index.html

I would highly recommend downloading the demos for each and checking them out. Always remember that everything has a learning curve.

[DonShirer]

That you are running Vista is possibly more to blame for your problems than the software. You might consider upgrading to the new MS operating system. While I'm a longtime Mac and Finale user, and can't answer for how these work on Vista, several years ago I switched to Sibelius, primarily to make things easier for my wife, who found it difficult to use Finale's complex interface. I was amazed at how quickly I picked up the new editing techniques, and found its "dynamic parts" feature a great help in preparing scores for performance. Now I do 90% of my work in Sibelius first. They have a "crossgrade" offer for users of other composition programs and a cheaper version, Sibelius First, as well.

[Dan Schultz]

Just another note. I posted earlier singing praises of Finale. I DID discover something it won't do that I wish it would... Finale will import Encore files. But.... NOT the latest release of Encore. sigh

[Amilcare]

Finale is still the gold standard. It's hard to learn, but it allows tremendous flexibility. BTW, with the advent of MusicXML, transferring files among FINALE, SIBELIUS, and many others is very easy. Noteworthy does not have this capability.

[BVD Press]

Finale is still the gold standard.

Although I only use Finale exclusively for publishing and move Sibelius files to FInale via XML, Finale is no longer the gold standard. It can do everything one might ask, but in popularity it is either equal to or has been surpassed by Sibelius in the general public and is gaining ground in the publishing world.

Here is a real world example:

I have been publishing music for a little over ten years (time flies). When I started 90% of the files were submitted as Finale files and 10% were in other programs or manuscript. In 2008, it was 70% Sibelius submissions and 30% Finale submissions. I am sure other publishers would have different numbers.

Why the change? (warning opinion here!)

1. Sibelius is easier to use or at least is perceived as easier to use
2. Sibelius has MUCH better marketing than Finale. If you go to demo of each with an open mind, I cannot imagine even considering Finale. Even in this thread it has been mentioned that Finale is difficult to use. It is, but not as difficult as it used to be and Finale has refused to acknowledge it was hard to learn or the fact that they have improved their product to make it easier.
3. Sibelius is at shows answering questions more often than Finale and is actually taking on the competition head-on. Finale is afraid to even use the word Sibelius.
4. SIbelius has better and responsive tech support.
5. Sibelius has a site to sell your music digitally while Finale has given up on digital music sales.
6. For many die hard Finale users like myself, we have felt for a while that Finale has given up on their notation product and all of the eggs are now in the SmartMusic basket (pardon the Easter pun). Maybe a good moneymaker, but this allows Sibelius to bury Finale in the notation world. Sibelius is also working a product similar to SmartMusic which has not been launched in full yet.

To me, the above is the reality of the situation between Finale and Sibelius. In addition to being a Finale user, I am a shareholder so the above frustrates me a great deal. For many years, I have felt Finale has been headed in the wrong direction, but thy are still making a product that I prefer compared to the competition. The problem I am facing now is if I am getting so many Sibelius submissions do I also give in and make the move? It is a tough decision because I prefer the look of Finale and have used it for 10+ years, but in the long run it might actually save me time to make the switch.

End of opinion.

For anyone considering either product, get both demos and buy according to your needs.

[eupher61]

Noteworthy Composer is great, and cheap, but (unless there's a brand-new version that corrects a lot of things) much limited in higher level things, like inserting multiple-bar-rests. There's a work-around, but it's pretty dinky. They only recently (well, version 2.0, which was in Beta for a lonnnnnnnnng time) added cresc and dim hairpins as an active graphic.

I use it, but I'm not doing a whole lot of writing right now. As that increases, I'll be switching to one of the Big 2.

[rocksanddirt]

WARNING STUPID QUESTION:

what is 'smartmusic'?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

what is 'smartmusic'?

The bane of accompanists everywhere. A computer generated "accompaniment" that allegedly speeds up/slows down with the soloist when selected. A "no tolerance" mode is also available where the accompaniment is exactly strict to the metronome markings. This system is becoming more accepted in colleges and universities (and, perhaps, high schools?) for student recital performances.

[Art Hovey]

I struggled with Finale for a year or so, and then got Sibelius and never looked back. It's worth every penny, although there are still improvements that could be made.

[BVD Press]

what is 'smartmusic'?

The bane of accompanists everywhere. A computer generated "accompaniment" that allegedly speeds up/slows down with the soloist when selected. A "no tolerance" mode is also available where the accompaniment is exactly strict to the metronome markings. This system is becoming more accepted in colleges and universities (and, perhaps, high schools?) for student recital performances.

http://www.smartmusic.com/

Overview:

http://www.smartmusic.com/SmartMusic/Default.aspx?p=1

I am not a huge fan of the tempo fluctuation option, but for pieces without tempo changes (for example many Baroque fast mvts.) this a great tool for keeping tempo and learning how to play with the actual notes and not just a metronome. If a HS can afford it, many teachers have integrated it into their music programs across the country.

[hald]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll try Sibelius next. Last night I loaded Cakewalk's Music Creator on my XP laptop and it ran perfectly the first time I tried it. I don't care for the midi sound, oh well...but everything else seems very good about the program.

The Finale Print Music I tried wouldn't allow window resizing or multiple windows. It wouldn't run on Vista, even after trying all the patches. Notion Protege runs on Vista. It's help files seem thin, and more than others, it uses definitions that aren't defined in the help files so it can be frustrating. Protege needed lots of downloads to install and while I was installing it I didn't think it was going to work on Vista. It seems to have a real tuba sound file, but the euphonium sounds electronic. Like most programs it assumes I have basic knowledge that I guess I don't have.

Does anyone here use or have tried Cubase? I was at Guitar Center yesterday and they say I should buy a midi controller and use Cubase. I think I tried Cubase several years ago when I bought a Roland midi workstation. I couldn't make head or tails of the program because the learning curve was so steep and the instruction book was as thick as an encyclopedia. The Roland went to live with my niece at college, so it worked out all right. I don't know if she uses Cubase or the midi part of the Roland. We both like playing real pianos best... I looked at the Cubase box yesterday. It looks like it's mainly for recording, not composing...I dislike programs that require a dongle. Opinions?

-hald

[Dan Schultz]

..... The Finale Print Music I tried wouldn't allow window resizing or multiple windows. It wouldn't run on Vista, even after trying all the patches. ..... Opinions? -hald

I'm having no trouble running Finale Print Music and Vista on my Toshiba. I just checked to make sure I can open multiple windows and resize then as I wish. No problems at all. Everyone seems to be scrambling to get their new releases on the market. Maybe you didn't try the 'latest and greatest'.

[Brassworks 4]

My publishing company started out using a product called "Igor" by Noteheads. It was quite a handy program, actually. But when it failed to support Mac OSX, I was forced to make a switch. I waffled between Finale and Sibelius - trying both demos to full extent. I found Sibelius far easier to learn. Perhaps it had more similarities to what I was familiar with. In the end, I chose Sibelius and I have not regretted it. I do own Finale but I only use it to open files submitted from writers (about half and half). I immediately export to XML and import right in to Sibelius. I find that process offers more accuracy than opening Finale directly from Sibelius.

Another plus to Sibelius is the compatibility of the software PhotoScore. I have even had success with scanning manuscripts and saving in to Sibelius.

I've grown to favor the look of Sibelius charts over Finale - but perhaps I'm just more used to them. Bryan at Cimarron and BVD does excellent work with Finale, creating top notch looking files. Most Finale users, in my opinion, haven't achieved that finesse. Which may be due to the fact that Finale requires more experience to format properly?

Good luck with making a decision. And do download both demos and spend time in each.